Price Check on Aisle 5? (Liner Install Questions)

[mopar440_6]

Could use some advice on the quotes I've gotten for relining my chimney. Background on the chimney:

Exterior brick chimney (good shape)
Clay tile lined - inside dimensions: 6-1/2" x 11" with a bunch of mortar joint spillage
Approx. 31'-32' height
Dead straight
8" crock through concrete basement wall

Currently, I have 3 quotes from 2 sweeps and 1 stove shop.

Sweep #1: 6" standard weight, SS flex liner, no mention of insulation type. They said they would not break out the tiles. $1900
Sweep #2: 6" standard weight, SS flex liner with poured Thermix insulation. They said they would attempt to install without breaking out the tiles ("because its easier") but would if they had to and the price would be adjusted accordingly. $1800 w/out breakout, $2700 with breakout
Stove shop: 6" standard weight, SS Olympia Forever Flex with wrapped insulation and tile break out. $2200

The stove shop price is not including the $189 charge to have their inspector come do a Level 2 inspection. They won't even finalize the quote until they have the inspection report. What bothers me is that their inspector is a consultant who is not listed under any of the professional organizations and they are going to be breaking out all the tiles anyway. The inspectors camera cannot see what's behind the tiles or anything else so why can't they just send a technician to get the measurements to finalize the quote?

It also seems to me that either sweep company is just looking for the easiest route rather than doing the job correctly since a 6-1/4" OD liner in a 6-1/2" ID chimney isn't leaving enough room for insulation to meet code. All of the quotes seem high to me. Am I getting hosed here or is it just because its the middle of the season?

 

[WoodpileOCD]

I'm certainly no expert on liners having only done my own but there are experts here who will probably come in. My only comment is that since you say there is a lot of mortar spillage I think you will have. A lot of trouble getting a liner down it with only a 1/2 " to spare. I don't know what is involved in knocking out the tiles but what about installing the liner yourself. Lots of good info and help on here. After some trepidation I did mine myself with out too much trouble and glad I did.

 

[mopar440_6]

I'm certainly no expert on liners having only done my own but there are experts here who will probably come in. My only comment is that since you say there is a lot of mortar spillage I think you will have. A lot of trouble getting a liner down it with only a 1/2 " to spare. I don't know what is involved in knocking out the tiles but what about installing the liner yourself. Lots of good info and help on here. After some trepidation I did mine myself with out too much trouble and glad I did.

I also think the sweeps who don't want to knock out the tiles will end up not being able to get even an uninsulated liner down. My fear is that they're going to quote doing it the "easy" way; then, when they can't get that done they're going to hit me for a bunch more money after the fact or they're going to beat the liner with a brick till it fits.

As far as DIY, I generally try to do most everything myself. My concern is breaking out the tiles without the proper tools and the fact that I'm not a fan of heights and the roof is pretty steeply pitched. With the limited budget, it may very well come down to a DIY install but at that point it will most likely be waiting until spring and I will have to determine how to break the tiles myself.

 

[CenterTree]

IMHO you MUST remove that liner.

You can't get the required 1/2 inch insulation without busting out the clay. (even with pour-in vermiculite)

The quote from the stove shop seem fairly reasonable considering it includes removing the clay. (that can be a task if there is a lot of mortar holding the tiles to the outer chimney bricks).
It is not too bad if the clay breaks away "easily" from the bricks though.

I assume the quote included EVERYTHING needed.
ie liner, insulation, TEE, top plate and rain cap, labor, etc.

Make sure they get you the proper length for your TEE-SNOUT coming through your thimble (crock).
This depends on what you will be using for your inside connection.
I had the inner end of my TEE-SNOUT crimped for my connection. (you may not need that though). Just plan ahead. Good luck.

 

[mopar440_6]

Well, looks like I'm going with the stove shop. They're cheaper than both sweeps (after tile breakout costs are added) and they are the only ones using a well known 316Ti liner rather than 316L. I know the 316L is probably more than adequate but the engineer in me would prefer the additional high temp stabilization provided by the Ti when the liner is only 0.006" thick. The stove shop seems to be the only ones who want to do the job right rather than just throw down a piece of whatever they have lying around down the chimney.

Their quote includes everything. Liner, insulation, tee, top plate, cap, labor, and misc cement and materials. As I mentioned above the stove shop will not even finalize the quote until they have a level 2 inspection report so that they can make sure that everything is correct before they come out. The liner is going to be connected directly to the 6" single wall stove pipe.

Also, they have the option of going with the Olympia Hybrid liner for an extra $330. It is a heavier thickness, semi-smooth wall liner but is only 316L alloy. Anyone think it would be worthwhile to spend the extra $300 to get the Hybrid liner?

 

[bholler]

I think it is worth while in fact the hybrid is the minimum thickness we will install for a wood stove. We typically run armor flex and for wood we almost always use 304 it is more than enough for wood but 316l will work very well also. And the hybrid is classified as smooth wall because it does not create any turbulence that slows smoke flow.

 

[bholler]

Sweep #2: 6" standard weight, SS flex liner with poured Thermix insulation. They said they would attempt to install without breaking out the tiles ("because its easier") but would if they had to and the price would be adjusted accordingly. $1800 w/out breakout, $2700 with breakout

And by the way $900 for breakout is an awful lot and yes it will need to be done.

 

[Jo191145]

Seems like a good place to ask. What's wrong with using an oval liner?

 

[bholler]

Seems like a good place to ask. What's wrong with using an oval liner?

Nothing wrong with it but to get the same volume as 6" round you would need to ovalize 7" and it would end up costing about the same as the 6" with break out. And round will always draw better than oval so as long as break out is feasible that is what we do

 

[mopar440_6]

Seems like a good place to ask. What's wrong with using an oval liner?

My hesitations with an oval liner are this:
-Cost - From the shopping I have done, a proper oval liner costs nearly double that of the equivalent round liner. And I'm not ok with just squashing a round liner with a brick or some PVC. Especially since it would have to start with 7" or larger diameter (oversize to compensate for losses when ovalizing) and go down to 4" on the narrow side to fit my chimney.
-Harder to clean - I would have to get a special brush or cut down a larger brush to clean it and even then the ends may not clean up.
-Original liner - Even the oval liner would still leave me with the original clay liner which makes me uncomfortable. If the clay (that is already cracked) were to break it could possibly puncture my expensive new liner. Also, if there is any creosote on the outside of the existing liner it could ignite from the heat, then I've got a chimney fire on the outside of both liners. Lastly, if I ever needed/wanted to upgrade to a larger stove, I would still have to have a professional break out the clay liner. Whereas if I just get it over with now, it gives me the option to change the liner myself in the future.

 

[bholler]

All very good reasons mopar you obviously have done your research

 

[mopar440_6]

All very good reasons mopar you obviously have done your research

Probably too much research in my wife's opinion.

 

[bholler]

Probably too much research in my wife's opinion.

Haha yeah i know how that goes to