Problem with 1999 Quad CB 1200 insert

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
Hi all, I'm new to this so please bear with me......I had a tech come out to "diagnose" my insert and was told I needed a new control box, which I ordered and replaced. I followed all directions, setting is at 1. The blue light blinked like it was supposed to. I turned up the thermostat, exhaust blower came on as did the call light. Pellets dropped and went on to ignite, however, when the green light turned red and the convection blower should come on, it doesn't. Instead, it seems it starts shutting down..... fire dies out, I think I can hear the auger motor periodically when the red light comes on but no pellets appear to drop. I jumped the #1 snap disc (which looked messed up and was only held by one screw, the disc itself wasn't even in the hole) and the blower came on so I figured it was the SD. I replaced that, fired it back up and it failed again at the same step.
I removed the vacuum hose and made sure it was not plugged, ran a wire through the nipple at the feed tube to make sure that was not plugged as well. Fired it back up and it failed again, same step, no blower. I'm just not sure where to go from here.....vacuum switch? door gasket? auger?
In the spring when I saw there was a problem (it's in the basement) it had a huge fire in the box and I'm not sure how long that was going on before I saw it.. I turned the thermostat back as low as it would go and let it cool down then just unplugged it. There it sat until the tech came out to "diagnose". I got charged for a "clean, service and sweep". The only thing mentioned was that he recommended a new control box, nothing was said about the jacked up SD.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. ~Ellie~

~
 

Overfireinthehole

Minister of Fire
May 5, 2017
623
Miller MO
The blower doesn’t come on when the red light comes on. The red light indicates the thermocouple has reached normal operating temps (600+) and at that time the igniter should stop receiving power. I assume the tech brushed your pipe completely? How is it piped? Did he take the exhaust blower off? What temp snap switch does your unit have for snap 1? Quad now recommends 100deg. due to problems they had with tubes warping and overtemping. How does your thermocouple look and is it pulled out into the fire and touching the end of the protector tube? Have you tried jumping snap 2?
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
The blower doesn’t come on when the red light comes on. The red light indicates the thermocouple has reached normal operating temps (600+) and at that time the igniter should stop receiving power. I assume the tech brushed your pipe completely? How is it piped? Did he take the exhaust blower off? What temp snap switch does your unit have for snap 1? Quad now recommends 100deg. due to problems they had with tubes warping and overtemping. How does your thermocouple look and is it pulled out into the fire and touching the end of the protector tube? Have you tried jumping snap 2?
I looked at the igniter when the light went to red and it did turn off......the thermocouple looks different, has a white, powdery look to it about an inch or so from the end, the wires look fused tho and I see no breaks in the solder....yes, it is touching the end of the tube and is into the fire. I guess I got the wrong temp snap, I went by the manual and got a 125.... did try and jump #2 but may not have done things right? If I jump it again, would I start it up as usual and see what happens? I'm not sure what I would be looking for it to do, sorry.
I honestly don't know what the tech did, I should have sat down there and watched. I don't believe he took the exhaust blower off tho. I did open the door to that and vacuumed it out, there was some stuff I pulled out, not a lot, but it was there, up around the neck of it where the flex pipe starts. I don't think he even looked behind the left side cover, I can't imagine seeing that snap disc look like that and not say anything???? Both SD are on the left side (as you face it) toward the front of the firebox near the top, #2 top and #1 right below it. That confused me because the manual says they're on the right side.
I apologize for not being able to explain things as well as I'd like...I'm very disappointed to be billed 235.00 and this is what I'm left with.
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
I looked at the igniter when the light went to red and it did turn off......the thermocouple looks different, has a white, powdery look to it about an inch or so from the end, the wires look fused tho and I see no breaks in the solder....yes, it is touching the end of the tube and is into the fire. I guess I got the wrong temp snap, I went by the manual and got a 125.... did try and jump #2 but may not have done things right? If I jump it again, would I start it up as usual and see what happens? I'm not sure what I would be looking for it to do, sorry.
I honestly don't know what the tech did, I should have sat down there and watched. I don't believe he took the exhaust blower off tho. I did open the door to that and vacuumed it out, there was some stuff I pulled out, not a lot, but it was there, up around the neck of it where the flex pipe starts. I don't think he even looked behind the left side cover, I can't imagine seeing that snap disc look like that and not say anything???? Both SD are on the left side (as you face it) toward the front of the firebox near the top, #2 top and #1 right below it. That confused me because the manual says they're on the right side.
I apologize for not being able to explain things as well as I'd like...I'm very disappointed to be billed 235.00 and this is what I'm left with.
I'll read up on how to post pictures and take one of the thermocouple so you can see what I mean..... I did take one of #1 disc when I took the cover off, I just have to figure out to upload them
 

Overfireinthehole

Minister of Fire
May 5, 2017
623
Miller MO
Two is normally closed so if you jump it by connecting the two wires that plug into the switch, the stove should start up normally, a as nd if that was the problem you should find out pretty quick cause it won’t fail. You have to go through the left side to brush the flu, so that’s very concerning if you don’t think he was in there. Techs make mistakes, but I charge half that, clean everything and carry all the parts on my van, so for that kind of money, I’d be calling them and telling them they need to come finish fixing the stove for free.
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
Two is normally closed so if you jump it by connecting the two wires that plug into the switch, the stove should start up normally, a as nd if that was the problem you should find out pretty quick cause it won’t fail. You have to go through the left side to brush the flu, so that’s very concerning if you don’t think he was in there. Techs make mistakes, but I charge half that, clean everything and carry all the parts on my van, so for that kind of money, I’d be calling them and telling them they need to come finish fixing the stove for free.
Thanks.....I did get a chimney guy to come out and make sure that was clear, it was dirty. He was very impressive with 31 yrs experience.
Afterwards, we ran it through the cycle and it failed at the same spot......is there a difference between the pellets dropping at startup and when it starts the feed cycle? Is it possible to have pellets drop on startup for that first fire and then when it starts the feed cycle I can hear the auger motor but very few, if any, pellets drop.....and fire dies out. Would sawdust between the tube and auger make it do that? My thought was to remove the assembly and make sure all dust is removed......I did remove the cover and got as far as removing the feed motor, but that's as far as I went.
I don't understand why it's so hard to get a tech out here. I think there just aren't that many around here and a heck of a lot of stoves to service? I did get ahold of one and he's so backed up it's crazy. He said to have a chimney check first and when that was cleared as the problem to let him know and he would try to squeeze me in..... I've called and left a message twice since last Sunday and have heard nothing. So here I am bugging you guys again :) Thank you for your help/advice/insight.....It's greatly appreciated.
 

Overfireinthehole

Minister of Fire
May 5, 2017
623
Miller MO
Empty the auger and pull the motor. Look at the top of the motor and the shaft. If there is a lot of grease that has been leaked out or if there is rust from bearing dust that’s a good indication the motor might be wore out, but the best indicator would be to jump the vacuum switch and run it while you can watch the auger and put pressure on it to see if it slows or stops.
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
Empty the auger and pull the motor. Look at the top of the motor and the shaft. If there is a lot of grease that has been leaked out or if there is rust from bearing dust that’s a good indication the motor might be wore out, but the best indicator would be to jump the vacuum switch and run it while you can watch the auger and put pressure on it to see if it slows or stops.
I will do that..... I'll have to pull it back out to get to it. Since I'm a one woman show up here I may not get to it until this afternoon. I have some stuff I absolutely have to get done first while the weather permits :)
So jumping the vacuum switch is the same process as the snap disc? Unplug, jump the 2 wires that connect to the vacuum switch then plug in and go through startup?
I thought about removing the new control box and plugging in the old one just to see what it does....if it fails at the same spot. Just out of curiosity I guess, wondering what it did to have that tech tell me I needed a new one ;). Your thoughts on that?
Thanks again....I'll report back when I get this done.
 

Overfireinthehole

Minister of Fire
May 5, 2017
623
Miller MO
Boards can fail, but often people who can’t figure out how to fix something just throw parts at it. Ya, same process for bypassing vac. I assume you know how to take the shroud off the stove and the hump to get to auger. Loosen the four screws below the hopper lid that pinch the shroud to lift the whole shroud off, and remove the two Philips screws In the plate above the hump and the hump slides out. 2 7/16 nuts hold the auger assembly in place. Unplug your stove while working and be very careful not to ground anything out while it’s plugged in.
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
I took the cover off and this is what I see.....you said to remove the 7/16 nuts, I don't need to remove the two black allen head screws? Just checking to make sure I do the right thing.
IMG_5545.jpg
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
Boards can fail, but often people who can’t figure out how to fix something just throw parts at it. Ya, same process for bypassing vac. I assume you know how to take the shroud off the stove and the hump to get to auger. Loosen the four screws below the hopper lid that pinch the shroud to lift the whole shroud off, and remove the two Philips screws In the plate above the hump and the hump slides out. 2 7/16 nuts hold the auger assembly in place. Unplug your stove while working and be very careful not to ground anything out while it’s plugged in.
Another question.... I removed the cover and the picture is what I see. I just want to be sure I understand....I just remove those two 7/16 nuts and then I can pull the whole assembly?? I can get it past that little lip you can see at the top??? I've read all the threads I can find on this site, I'm just double checking myself.
Oh, I did jump the vacuum switch, started fine and failed at same spot as before.
 

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Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
I was wondering about the thermocouple too...the book says it should extend into the fire pot approximately 3/4 in. Since it is attached on the edge of that flare on the top....they mean 3/4 inch inside the vertical wall, correct?
 

Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
the thermocouple should touch the end of the protector and the protector should be inside the vertical wall at least 3/4” yes. If the auger motor changes direction the capacitor is bad
I could check it again to make sure but I certainly thought it was changing direction. Is there a way to check this that is best? If it is the capacitor, what all needs replacing?
 

Ssyko

Minister of Fire
Nov 6, 2017
2,616
Lorraine NY
Empty the hopper and and watch the auger spring in the tube when it’s running. Or you can look through the side with a light . It should turn the same direction every time the auger cycles. If it changes direction there is a cap/harness kit
 
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Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
Empty the hopper and and watch the auger spring in the tube when it’s running. Or you can look through the side with a light . It should turn the same direction every time the auger cycles. If it changes direction there is a cap/harness kit
Thanks, it is emptied pretty much, maybe half a cup in the very bottom at the end of the auger but I think I need to raise the arm that adjusts the feed all the way up to get a better view....sorry to be such a pain, this is the first dealings I've had with this old/any pellet stove and it's gone on so long that I can't quit now....now its a challenge LOL. Thanks for the help!
 

Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,488
Salem NH
Hello
I just worked on a 21 year old CB1200 insert today with the exact same problem.
Replaced these 2 original parts & Vac hose and Bingo, stove works great again!
 

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Lekcombs

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
35
Black Hills SD
No apologies needed. We all love a challenge. We get this figured out and running you’ll love the stove. Mine went into retirement reluctantly this year. I just can’t bring myself tp sell it yet lol
Hey there.....well, I was finally able to look at the auger again. It definitely is reversing. I noticed something else as well, as the auger was turning (I can't remember which direction) in one spot it acted kind of like it would catch on something....I would hear a faint pop... the auger would raise a bit when this would happen. My thought is that I need to pull the auger too and check all that. When I take the motor off, I would need to loosen the collar set screw, correct? Then I should be able to remove the motor and then pull the auger? Once again, thanking you all for your expertise, advice and help! ~ Ellie ~
 

Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,488
Salem NH
When I remove the auger, I take out the 2 or 4 screws that hold the feed motor. The old motors had Alan head screws and the new motors have Phillip head screws, then I remove the 2 nuts that hold the bracket on the auger tube and pull the motor & spring auger out in one piece after pulling off the right side bracket that holds the hi limit switch. There is not a lot of room and you may have to twist it back and forth so the spring auger does not get stuck. Also you have to bail out all the pellets first which is a PITA because the easiest way is to take the top of the stove off by removing approx 10 screws that hold it on!
Then when you have the whole auger and motor assembly out of the stove after unplugging the molex connector to the motor, you can loosen the 2 Alan head collar set screws to pull the motor off the spring auger. I always wire wheel the spring auger clean and the spray it with dry moly to keep the pellets sticking. :)
I had part of a pellet bag stuck in my Auger so had to pull it out to get the bag out! See pic!!!
Is that what you did?
 

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