Quad Castile Clinkers with CleanFire Pacific Pellets

[fireatwill]

Hi all,

I'm running a Quad Castile and getting massive clinkers after almost every cool-down. Thing is, I've never had them before (not even small ones) and I've run 5 or 6 different brand through without any problem at all. I went in on this batch of pellets from woodpellets.com (CleanFire Pacific) with a friend who burned them all last year with no problems and my stove is failing to start almost every morning... I've contacted their customer service and they've been zero help.

Stove is spotlessly clean. I've gone through it thoroughly since the problem started and even ran a leaf blower down the combustion fan and blower fans (that was messy!). I'm out of ideas. Help!

 

[smalltown]

Not sure if you mean that at this time other pellets are burning ok, and it's just the CleanFire pellets.
If they are all burning poorly I would think it's not getting enough air coming up through the burn pot.
How old is your Castile?. Is the door gasket ok? Some test the gasket with a dollar bill around the door edges.
I also imagine you have removed the rear brick panels, and cleaned behind them?
Don't forget the 8 small holes at the bottom of he burn pot (4 front , 4 rear) should be open to allow air, plus the big holes around the edges.
Check to see if the burn pot is not moving around, found mine a little loose last season only to discover that the gasket under the burn pot had disintegrated, an air was passing by the burn pot instead of through it..
Long shot, but the air intake appears to be under the stove is it clear?

Got to get that stove running very cold air coming this week.

 

[fireatwill]

Thanks! I definitely cleaned behind the brick backs. I will shut down the stove to make a more thorough inspection of the burn pot. Door gasket appears to be in good shape.

Strange thing is, other pellets work fine and don't produce clinkers (even now). Last year I burned their "Granules LG" with no problems and ran a few bags of them I had left over with no trouble last week. These seem to burn totally different from any pellet I've ever used. There is almost no ash buildup outside of the pot - it all stays in there. With other brands I get ash on the floor of the stove that I'd sweep up periodically.

Granules LG (no problems)
.39% ash
Softwood
6.50% moisture
8600 BTU/lb (moisture-free)
8190 BTU/lb (as recieved)

CleanFire Pacific (clinkers galore)
.37% ash
Softwood
4.10% moisture
8800 BTU/lb (moisture-free)
8489 BTU/lb (as recieved)

 

[briansol]

It's possible these hotter pellets simply require more air than you are giving it. Do you have a damper? is it wide open? is your pipe clean?

 

[fireatwill]

It's possible these hotter pellets simply require more air than you are giving it. Do you have a damper? is it wide open? is your pipe clean?

I wish I had some kind of air control but the Quad Castile is all auto... I can only control high, med, low (which controls auger and both blowers) and a feed gate (which I have closed as much as possible). Not sure how to get more air into it. I've read in some other threads where some have drilled additional holes but that seems like overkill here since I'm only having trouble with these pellets.

Also, the fire actually looks pretty good - very active with a lot of swirl and only an inch or two above the fire pot.

 

[tjnamtiw]

You mentioned that you went in with another fellow to buy the lot of pellets. Is he having the same problems? Does he run the same stove style? Since other pellets run OK, it looks like you're going to have a LONG winter until those pellets are gone! Blending with another brand is a possibility although a PITA.

I was impressed with the info you posted with each brand of pellet. Was that all listed on the bags? And I seriously doubt that anyone could notice a difference of 300 btu's between the two brands so adjusting air flow for that is a mute point. On high, your flame should be half way up to the cover for the tubes. It sounds like you aren't burning enough pellets.

 

[fireatwill]

You mentioned that you went in with another fellow to buy the lot of pellets. Is he having the same problems? Does he run the same stove style? Since other pellets run OK, it looks like you're going to have a LONG winter until those pellets are gone!

He isn't having any trouble but his stove is very different - large square shallow burn pot vs my Castile's smaller deeper round pot. That may be part of the problem - the heat has nowhere to go and gets reflected. He also burns a LOT more than I do, basically runs the stove constantly whereas I run it with a programmable thermostat so it is on in the early AM and in the evening. The upside is that I only bought a ton from him, so it won't take all winter to burn them up. I've thought about maybe mixing them. Will test that this week.

Also, I just finished cooling off the stove and the burn pot definitely isn't moving around at all so no air leak there I think. I double checked all of the small holes and they are clear. Discovered it is easy to verify they are clear by taking the ashpan out and shining a light in there while looking into the burn pot. You can see the light in the holes and they are all wide open.

All the info was from the woodpellets.com site where I ordered from. They suggested a tired exhaust fan which seems unlikely to me. I'll replace the tadpole gasket this weekend and see if maybe there is some leakage there I'm missing since it is a year old. Thanks!

I do hate the fact that the stove doesn't allow for different blower settings. I'm considering the b-mod rewire but don't relish the idea of messing with it during heating season. It does seem like I could run the stove on Med or Low with a more open feed gate and it would be a lot more efficient but I want to get as much air through the tubes as possible to throw the heat right now.

 

[tjnamtiw]

He isn't having any trouble but his stove is very different - large square shallow burn pot vs my Castile's smaller deeper round pot. That may be part of the problem - the heat has nowhere to go and gets reflected. He also burns a LOT more than I do, basically runs the stove constantly whereas I run it with a programmable thermostat so it is on in the early AM and in the evening. The upside is that I only bought a ton from him, so it won't take all winter to burn them up. I've thought about maybe mixing them. Will test that this week.

Also, I just finished cooling off the stove and the burn pot definitely isn't moving around at all so no air leak there I think. I double checked all of the small holes and they are clear. Discovered it is easy to verify they are clear by taking the ashpan out and shining a light in there while looking into the burn pot. You can see the light in the holes and they are all wide open.

All the info was from the woodpellets.com site where I ordered from. They suggested a tired exhaust fan which seems unlikely to me. I'll replace the tadpole gasket this weekend and see if maybe there is some leakage there I'm missing since it is a year old. Thanks!

I do hate the fact that the stove doesn't allow for different blower settings. I'm considering the b-mod rewire but don't relish the idea of messing with it during heating season. It does seem like I could run the stove on Med or Low with a more open feed gate and it would be a lot more efficient but I want to get as much air through the tubes as possible to throw the heat right now.

I did the B-Mod 'mod' two years ago on both my stoves. It is dirt simple if you can crimp wire into terminals and can read a voltmeter to be sure you are taping into the correct power. That wouldn't help your clinker problem though. It just keeps your room fan on high speed.
When you are cleaning your stove, do you put a small suction hose into the area where the exhaust fan sits? There is a setup that I bought at HomeDepot that allows you to put this very small tube onto the end of your vacuum cleaner and snake it into the hole where the fans resides. If you have a build up in there, your airflow will be restricted.

 

[smalltown]

If these are the only pellets that are burning poorly you would think it's the pellets. If it were me I'd buy a few bags of something else to test.

 

[fireatwill]

When you are cleaning your stove, do you put a small suction hose into the area where the exhaust fan sits? There is a setup that I bought at HomeDepot that allows you to put this very small tube onto the end of your vacuum cleaner and snake it into the hole where the fans resides. If you have a build up in there, your airflow will be restricted.

The exhaust fan is right behind the right-side brick wall, isn't it? I usually clean that once a month (and most recently blew it out with a leaf blower to see if that would make a difference). Is there a way to get beyond/behind the fan for cleaning without totally breaking down the stove?

In the fall, I also hooked my leafblower up to the chimney on suction mode and cleared things out that way. I feel like I should have a pretty clean stove right now...

 

[fireatwill]

If these are the only pellets that are burning poorly you would think it's the pellets. If it were me I'd buy a few bags of something else to test.

It's definitely just these pellets giving me heck right now, but I'm stuck with a ton of them. woodpellets.com offered me $75 for the inconvenience and refused to deliver a one-ton order of the Granules LG (which I offered to pay full price for). Not a great customer service experience.

 

[smalltown]

The only way to clean the rear side of the exhaust fan is to remove it. Not the worst job. I remove mine each season, and clean it then install a new gasket (usually breaks when removing the motor)
If you do go that route get the gasket ahead of time. You remove the convection fan by loosening 4 screws, unplug and slide it out. I think its 7 screws on the rear of the castile, and several connectors to com apart..
Lastly I think it's 5, 1/4" screws securing the fan. Still if other pellet burn ok your mixing plan might be the best alternative.

 

[Countryboymo]

I know that on mine the combustion fan seemed somewhat noisy but it was no where near obnoxious and I seemed to have more issues with pellets than I thought I should even after cleaning and sealing and checking everything. I finally replaced the fan and wow is it quiet in comparison and my burn is way better. I have some clinker and ash issues but I am burning two tons of ozark hardwoods that ran me 145 a ton but I am dealing with it. If I throw a bag of good softwoods I end up with almost no ash and no clinkers at all. The old combustion fan wouldn't even burn the ozarks on low and keep the fire going which is not an issue now.

 

[tjnamtiw]

The only way to clean the rear side of the exhaust fan is to remove it. Not the worst job. I remove mine each season, and clean it then install a new gasket (usually breaks when removing the motor)
If you do go that route get the gasket ahead of time. You remove the convection fan by loosening 4 screws, unplug and slide it out. I think its 7 screws on the rear of the castile, and several connectors to com apart..
Lastly I think it's 5, 1/4" screws securing the fan. Still if other pellet burn ok your mixing plan might be the best alternative.

The convection fan on my Castile is held in place with a magnet and a thumb screw, which the manual says to remove since it's only for shipment. I still use it for extra security. No other screws hold it in place.

 

[smalltown]

Nobody with a Quad Castile that runs on a medium/large non inverter generator during a power outage??????

 

[SwineFlue]

Is there a way to get beyond/behind the fan for cleaning without totally breaking down the stove?

The Quad Top-Vent adapter has a handy cleanout door: it allows you to put a brush up the vent, then a vacuum hose in to the exhaust blower.

remove the convection fan by loosening 4 screws

The convection fan on my Castile is held in place with a magnet and a thumb screw

Freestanding uses 4 screws; Inserts use a thumbscrew.

 

[tjnamtiw]

The Quad Top-Vent adapter has a handy cleanout door: it allows you to put a brush up the vent, then a vacuum hose in to the exhaust blower.





Freestanding uses 4 screws; Inserts use a thumbscrew.

Interesting on both counts!
Shoot! Looks like it's for FS's only! Mine already vents straight up.

 

[peirhead]

Fireatwill...I have a similar problem with a few brands of hardwood pellets that burn too slowly and build up in my burn pot.....I normally run the stove on medium, but have found that running on high with these problematic pellets significantly reduces the buildup issues..mainly because of more air for combustion.

I suggest running on high for a while with them, and if that doesn't help..you can always mix then with good pellets to use them up!!

 

[fmsm]

I am having the same issue with 2 stoves and the Cleanfire Pacific's. One of the stoves was a brand new install, I ran about 10-15 bags of Somerset's with 0 issues then I switched over to the Cleanfire Pacific's because I wanted to make room in shed (they came on a 1.5 ton skid) and it was getting a little colder. I also noticed the label on the bag say "Predominantly Softwood" not 100% Softwood, needless to say I was very upset paying top dollar and not getting what they advertise. We have been going around since the day after Thanksgiving and I feel the folks at woodpellets.com are giving me the run around. I have documented everything on their site and they have sent me reports that could be anything. I have been patient but that is going to end very quickly. By virtue of their misrepresentation I am ready to allege unfair and deceptive practices and call/file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. A simple mistake is one thing, a mistake on purpose is another, but jerking people around that's just not right.

This is their response on 12/4:
I wanted to let you know that I reached out to the Director of Sales for the mill today but it appears he’s unavailable today. I’m confident that I will hear back from him either end of today or tomorrow regarding your concerns on the feedstock.


As Joy mentioned, I manage all the purchasing for our company, and work closely with the mills that manufacture our products. I can assure you that the product you purchased, Cleanfire Pacific, is indeed 100% softwood. The labeling on the bag is a legacy label which we had as our standard several years ago when we worked with mills that may have had a minor percentage of hardwood in the feedstock. We are actually updating this label to reflect “softwood” on our next bag production run to properly identify the “material” on the label.


As soon as I get any additional information, I will contact you or send it along to you.


Kindest regards,

Then on 12/9:

First, I apologize for the delayed response.


I did speak with our Sales Director from the mill at the end of last week, and he did confirm that our Cleanfire Pacific product is indeed made with 100% softwood material feedstock.


I hope that this information provides you with the assurances that you were seeking regarding our product.


Please let me know if you have any additional questions that I may of assistance.


Thank you and have a nice day.


Kindest regards,

I replied:
I am not happy with this……

They replied:
I’m very sorry to hear that. We do apologize for the misprint on the bag and we will be in touch with a more formal confirmation that the pellets are 100% softwood.


Kindest regards,

That was on 12/9 and I am still waiting, I am not one to trash a company but I am really ticked off, we may end up talking class action here.........

 

[scagger]

I have a Quad Castile insert and have been burning CleanFire Pacific pellets for the first time this season. So far they've been okay. Actually I've had zero problems with my burnpot getting clogged with ash as opposed to last year when I had to dump the pot after every shutdown. I do notice quite a bit of ash outside the pot and my door glass gets dirty within 2 days. The appear to burn pretty well though and my stove seems a little quieter with the softwood. I'm not sure if the dirty glass has anything to do with my door gasket that I recently replaced myself. I cut away the top sealing surface for the airwash, but maybe it's getting too much air now? Anyhow, I ran Cubex last year and I didn't think they burned as well as these, but far less ash. I'd rather have more ash than a clogged burn pot everyday though.

 

[tjnamtiw]

scagger, how old is your Castile? Quad switched from top airwash to bottom airwash several years back. Top airwash is not as effective as bottom airwash keeping the glass clean although I have top airwash on my Quad and bottom airwash on my Sante Fe and see no difference.
Was yours always on the top?

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Part softwood, part DIRT AND CRAP is what I'm thinking. Go buy one bag of something else and see how she burns after you empty the hopper and run the old stuff out......

Sorry if you are out on a ton of pellets, that is a big waste of money if they are that bad and I've seen it happen. We've even had a bad batch a few times from our supplier who is usually VERY spot on with quality. I hope they make it right.

 

[scagger]

scagger, how old is your Castile? Quad switched from top airwash to bottom airwash several years back. Top airwash is not as effective as bottom airwash keeping the glass clean although I have top airwash on my Quad and bottom airwash on my Sante Fe and see no difference.
Was yours always on the top?

Not sure, I bought the house with the stove already installed. It is an older model though because the control box is gray and has other subtle differences than my friend's newer Castile. The airwash was on top before I replaced the gasket.

 

[countk]

I am having the same issue with 2 stoves and the Cleanfire Pacific's. One of the stoves was a brand new install, I ran about 10-15 bags of Somerset's with 0 issues then I switched over to the Cleanfire Pacific's because I wanted to make room in shed (they came on a 1.5 ton skid) and it was getting a little colder. I also noticed the label on the bag say "Predominantly Softwood" not 100% Softwood, needless to say I was very upset paying top dollar and not getting what they advertise. We have been going around since the day after Thanksgiving and I feel the folks at woodpellets.com are giving me the run around. I have documented everything on their site and they have sent me reports that could be anything. I have been patient but that is going to end very quickly. By virtue of their misrepresentation I am ready to allege unfair and deceptive practices and call/file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. A simple mistake is one thing, a mistake on purpose is another, but jerking people around that's just not right.

This is their response on 12/4:
I wanted to let you know that I reached out to the Director of Sales for the mill today but it appears he’s unavailable today. I’m confident that I will hear back from him either end of today or tomorrow regarding your concerns on the feedstock.


As Joy mentioned, I manage all the purchasing for our company, and work closely with the mills that manufacture our products. I can assure you that the product you purchased, Cleanfire Pacific, is indeed 100% softwood. The labeling on the bag is a legacy label which we had as our standard several years ago when we worked with mills that may have had a minor percentage of hardwood in the feedstock. We are actually updating this label to reflect “softwood” on our next bag production run to properly identify the “material” on the label.

As soon as I get any additional information, I will contact you or send it along to you.

Kindest regards,

Then on 12/9:

First, I apologize for the delayed response.

I did speak with our Sales Director from the mill at the end of last week, and he did confirm that our Cleanfire Pacific product is indeed made with 100% softwood material feedstock.

I hope that this information provides you with the assurances that you were seeking regarding our product.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions that I may of assistance.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Kindest regards,

I replied:
I am not happy with this……

They replied:
I’m very sorry to hear that. We do apologize for the misprint on the bag and we will be in touch with a more formal confirmation that the pellets are 100% softwood.

Kindest regards,

That was on 12/9 and I am still waiting, I am not one to trash a company but I am really ticked off, we may end up talking class action here.........

I am also having issues with the Cleanfire Pacifics I received from woodpellets.com back in Nov. They are definitely not real hot as advertised, at least the batch I got. My leftover Green Team from last year are in my stove now, and have been burning much hotter. They are also dirtier and the ash is higher than it should be. I guess the best way to describe what I am seeing is that they are burning more like an average pellet at best. I am going to call them today and make my complaint known.

I was debating between the Cleanfire and the LG Granules. I obviously chose the wrong one!

 

[jlupi]

Nobody with a Quad Castile that runs on a medium/large non inverter generator during a power outage??????

Ive done it. recommend self starting but after startup no probs.