Quadra-Fire 3100-I (Pre ACT) Excess Secondary Air

[WVLouis]

Came across this site will troubleshooting an issue I am having. It has lots of great information and I am hoping someone will be able to assist.

I bought a used 3100-I that was made in 1995 a couple months ago. The issue I am having seems to be with excess secondary air. I installed a new 6" SS Liner that is insulated. The chimney height is 33'. The wood is very well seasoned (over 5 years). The temperature has been at 20 to 10 degrees. Once I get the fire going with 3 good size splits with both controls pushed in I pull the primary out. This usually takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes. The primary at this point has no impact on the flames. I then start to back off on the secondary. I usually have to do this quickly because the fire is raging and the stove top temp has quickly climbed to 400. At this point a purple/Orange fireball rolls from the back of the fire box to the front at a rapid rate. It will stay this way for about an hour. The stove top temp continues to climb to 600-650 and tops out. The wood gets used up quickly and I reload once the stove top is at 300. Usually in 2-3 hours. I have replaced the door gasket and it passes the dollar bill test. I can hear air being sucked into the stove from the bottom. There appears to be 4 inlets on the underside of the stove. I was able to work a piece of aluminum foil to the back left inlet and block it off and it helped a tiny bit to reduce the air movement in the box. The secondary control has a stop (screw) that won't allow it to close all of the way. I also blocked this off with a piece of foil for testing but I still don't have much control over the flames or speed of the air. I am thinking I have to much draft and need to either limit the air into the box or reduce the draft. I am looking to get better control over the fire and extend my burn times. What is the best method to go about this? Install a damper or start blocking off the inlets? Should I block each inlet down to half with magnets or block two entirely off? I have included a link to a video 30 minutes into the burn with the primary and secondary shutdown. This is my first stove so it could be user error and I just need to work the controls slower. Thank you for your help.

Video Link: https://shareSync.serverdata.net/web/s/IvUmjzJeuGbT76I62KTfS4

I couldn't upload MOV or AVI files that is why I put the video out for download.

 

[woodhog73]

I have the same stove you do a Quadrafire 3100i. It's new but it's the older model it doesn't have the automatic feature.

All I will add is I do the same your describing. ( I didn't watch video ) After roughly 5 minutes I pull the primary or start up air as I call it all the way out. It also has little to no effect on the flames. I wait another 5 minutes then pull out the secondary or regular air control ( bottom center of stove) about half way. Them another 5 minute I pull it out 3/4 or so and leave it.

If I pulled it all the way out, it just about shuts the air off as all flames will go out.

Sounds like that control is either not working or works but not in it's full range.

Sorry I'm really no help but what you described is different than what my 3100i does so figured I would add that insight.

Good luck. Hopefully someone here with more experience can help

 

[WVLouis]

I have the same stove you do a Quadrafire 3100i. It's new but it's the older model it doesn't have the automatic feature.

All I will add is I do the same your describing. ( I didn't watch video ) After roughly 5 minutes I pull the primary or start up air as I call it all the way out. It also has little to no effect on the flames. I wait another 5 minutes then pull out the secondary or regular air control ( bottom center of stove) about half way. Them another 5 minute I pull it out 3/4 or so and leave it.

If I pulled it all the way out, it just about shuts the air off as all flames will go out.

Sounds like that control is either not working or works but not in it's full range.

Sorry I'm really no help but what you described is different than what my 3100i does so figured I would add that insight.

Good luck. Hopefully someone here with more experience can help

What I am seeing is just like what is being described in this thread. Maybe everything is working correctly and it should rage nearly out of control. There isn't any way to stop it once it starts.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/now-i-know-what-secondary-burn-is-wow.27366/

 

[woodhog73]

Does it burn out of control the whole time ? Or are you able to get the flame under control ? Burn characteristics do vary with wood type , seasoning , etc but having an out of control fire that burns through a load of wood in 2 hours doesn't sound good.

My quadrafire 3100i doesn't do that if I turn the air down. If I leave it fully open it will burn similar to what your describing with good dry wood. However I turn the air almost fully closed. When i do, I get a lazy flame, with the flame occasionally drifting to the secondary burn tubes and occasional evidence of secondary burn. But the secondary burn is happening cause I get no smoke.

I'm also getting 4 to 5 hour burn times with actual flames ( seasoned oak) then another 2 hours of coals after that. My burn times with less dense wood are less. Birch and poplar can be less than 2 hours.

 

[WVLouis]

Does it burn out of control the whole time ? Or are you able to get the flame under control ? Burn characteristics do vary with wood type , seasoning , etc but having an out of control fire that burns through a load of wood in 2 hours doesn't sound good.

My quadrafire 3100i doesn't do that if I turn the air down. If I leave it fully open it will burn similar to what your describing with good dry wood. However I turn the air almost fully closed. When i do, I get a lazy flame, with the flame occasionally drifting to the secondary burn tubes and occasional evidence of secondary burn. But the secondary burn is happening cause I get no smoke.

I'm also getting 4 to 5 hour burn times with actual flames ( seasoned oak) then another 2 hours of coals after that. My burn times with less dense wood are less. Birch and poplar can be less than 2 hours.

I can't get the lazy orange flames. There are always fast moving blue flames down by the bottom of the wood. They extend up to about the middle of the firebrick. It seems like there is always fast moving air entering through the secondary inlet under the door. I have checked the plate that the secondary rod controls and it is there. It does not close all of the way do to the stop. I can cover that opening with foil which has no effect on the blue flames.

 

[WVLouis]

I took an old firebrick I had cut it in half and placed it on top of the ceramic blanket in the shape of a V. This seems to have helped with the draft/excess air flow. I don't have any of the inlets blocked off at this point. I will post back on my burn times but so far it looks much better. I need to replace the ceramic blanket also. It is old and falling apart and no longer 1" thick. Hopefully that will also cut back on the draft.

 

[VirginiaIron]

When I installed mine In 1995, One thing I noticed on mine was the primary control did not appear to close fully. The rod appeared to be bent and was binding. On my unit you can get a better view of this when you remove the right fan panel that the right fan is mounted on. I also found that the fan shroud/plate could interfere with the operation of the primary control rod, Upon the assembly, if you're not careful. I think mine only had one opening for primary and One opening for secondary as well.

Edit: it was the primary control rod that was actually bent.

 

[VirginiaIron]

My quad always had a distinct disconnect between the wood and the flames when I was burning hot load on secondary. It was almost as if the flames coming out of the tubes themselves.

 

[begreen]

Our Castine was like that at times, especially with hardwood. You could shut the air down and there was barely any flame on the wood but a fountain of fire above.

 

[JA600L]

Are there any cracks toward the top rear of the firebox?

 

[VirginiaIron]

Are these units prone to cracks in the rear of the firebox?

 

[JA600L]

My 4300 was when I got it. It must be somewhat common because the local Quad dealer had a repair patch in stock.

 

[begreen]

Inspect for leaks or crack though with very well seasoned wood + 33 ft chimney I'd guess too strong draft and would try adding a damper in the stove pipe. Stick with large splits and maybe intesperse some 1 yr. seasoned wood with the older splits to help slow the fire down.

 

[Jags]

I am thinging on the same path as BG. 33 ft of pipe is probably creating a very strong draft. Couple that with very dry wood and a fairly easy breathing stove and it makes a recipe for big fire. A damper in the pipe might be the way to go on this one but not sure how feasable with an insert.

 

[begreen]

Thanks Jags, I lost track and forgot it was an insert. That's a greater challenge unless there is some room . In this case I'd be tempted to try a reducer to 5" at the cap.

 

[VirginiaIron]

My 4300 was when I got it. It must be somewhat common because the local Quad dealer had a repair patch in stock.

What kind of repair patch?