Quadra-Fire 7100 ACC question

[Tom Hockett]

I have just installed a Quadra-Fire 7100 and am having trouble understanding the operation of the Automatic Combustion Control. There are two levers for combustion control, one is the "Automatic Combustion Control" and the other is the "Combustion Control Override". In the Owner's manual on page 10, whoever wrote it got lazy and just started referring to the "Combustion Air Control" lever. I got confused as to which lever they meant when they say things. I have three questions that might clear things up:
1) what position should the "Combustion Control Override" need to be in when using the "Automatic Combustion Control", or does it even matter?
2) Approximately how long does the automatic combustion control take to go from open to the desired set point? 2 minutes? a half hour?
3) Is there any way of knowing that the automatic combustion control is even working other than estimation by the fire rate?

To date (2 days of operation) I have been using the override as I can't seem to make the automatic control work. Thanks for any help

 

[Andrewgia]

Tom
I moved into my new house and have been using my 7100 about the same amount of time as you. I love mine as it has been heating my home exclusively for the better part of a week now.

Unfortunately, I have the very same question. The two levers have me baffled.

I hope to see some info soon.

 

[Tom Hockett]

Andrew,
I have it pretty much figured out through trial and error. The manual is very poorly written in this area.

For both levers, the right provides an un-dampened (Hot and fast) flame, and to the left is for a dampened (Cooler and slower burning) flame.

The left side lever is the automatic combustion control lever. The right side lever is the automatic combustion control over-ride lever. The right side (over-ride) lever should normally left in the far right position. If it is left in the right position, the automatic lever can be activated by sliding the automatic lever from the far left side to the far right side, then back to the left to the desired final firing level. (That movement is sort like winding up an old fashion, mechanical clock which serves as the timer mechanism for the automatic control). The automatic combustion control then starts up at full fire and then slowly dampens down to the left sided level you selected for that automatic lever after about 20 minutes.

At any time, if you move the right side (over-ride) lever to the left, it will dampen down immediately. The over-ride lever only takes precedence in damping down. If the over-ride lever is in the right-most position, the automatic combustion control can dampen the flame down if it is to moved to the left. If the over-ride lever is move to the left, only then it takes precedence.
It isn't as complicated as it sounds once you figure it out.

Hope that helps.

Now I have to figure out why only room temperature air comes out of the auxiliary air vents. It seemingly should be hot (at least warm) air. The dealer can't figure it out either and is contacting the factory to figure out what the problem is.

 

[Tom Hockett]

A couple of things I forgot to mention that took me a while to figure out; Once you start the timer for the automatic control, I don't think you can stop it. What that means to me is that if I am burning a soft wood it usually takes way too long for the automatic control to dampen the fire down, so I have to use the over-ride to keep the wood from burning up too quickly.
Also, once the timer is timed out, you can use either damper lever to control the firing rate. (The automatic control doesn't activate if you don't move the lever full stroke both ways) It seems the automatic control lever provides a lot finer control than does the over-ride lever though.

When adding wood to an established fire, I usually don't even touch the levers.

 

[Andrewgia]

Tom

Wow....that's a lot of info. You think Quadrafire could have explained it that simply in the giant manual. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to communicate it.

I actually was using the Over-ride to the left and the ACC as explained, so I wasn't getting it right. I will now leave the Over-ride to the right and use the ACC open to start and immediately slide it to the left because it gets to hot if I leave it open to long.

I am not totally up to speed, especially after your second post, but I will play with it. The confusion with the ACC is it actually has dual function, draft and timer. From what you are saying, if I don't slide the ACC fully right, I can avoid the timer function. Doesn't the Over-ride cancel out the timer or does it just set the draft?

 

[Tom Hockett]

You are correct, if you don't slide the ACC fully to the right you won't activate the timer. But once you set the timer, it just starts running I don't think you can stop it. If you listen closely, you can hear the timer ticking like a clock (or a time bomb ? The timer will hold the damper open and slowly close the damper to where ever the ACC lever is set. At times you might possibly accidentally reset and restart the timer by moving the ACC lever to far to the right again ( based on if the lever was far enough to the left when you started moving it to the right).

The Over-ride will over-ride the ACC delay for closing the damper but doesn't appear to stop the timer.

If it were possible and the stove weren't so expensive, it would be interesting to tear the stove apart to physically see how they made this dual damper control work. Seemingly it is overly complicated for what it does. I am not even convinced yet that the ACC is even a worthwhile feature. It would function a lot better (but probably be even more complicated) if you could adjust how fast or slow the ACC closes the damper. it would also seemingly be easier to understand and far more intuitive if the two levers didn't share a plane of travel. It appears to me the system was designed by a guy that was way too smart for his own good.

Did you get auxillary air vent package? Mine appears to be a rather large waste of money as it just blows room temperature air to another room.

Other than that I am happy with the stove.
.
Good luck with yours.

 

[Andrewgia]

I hear the time bomb now! Thanks.

I guess I would prefer simple, timer doesn't do it for me. I know some people really like it though so I will continue to try to use it . As far as the explanation goes, I would have thought a few pictures or diagrams could have explained it nicely.

I had read a few lack luster reviews of the auxiliary air package, as I was also intending to install it at first. My local dealer was the final reason I did not purchase as he didn't feel it worth while. I am a builder and this fireplace was central to the design and function of our new home. Propane customers in NJ regularly pay $4,000 to $5,000 a year for heating a house my size. I found that bothersome so I set out to limit my propane consumption three ways, insulate/seal very well, high efficiency boiler, high efficiency fireplace. Instead of the Quadrafire zoned heating system, I had my heating contractor design my forced air HVAC system with the fireplace in mind. In NJ, we use a lot of forced air systems because we always install AC. A forced air system makes heat distribution a bit easier because we just added "returns" high in the room with the fireplace and closed the supplies, forcing that warmed air elsewhere in the house. So far it works surprisingly well. I do leave my air handler fan running constantly to distribute the air, but I think that cost penny's a day in electric.

A few thoughts on your auxiliary zone system. I hate to be a backseat quarterback from the other side of the country but figured I would ask a few questions that jump out at me with my building background. I'm sure your local guy knows more but figured I would ask:

1. Zero clearance fireplaces do a great(amazing) job of keeping heat inside through use of sheet metal and insulation. We have installed hundreds to thousands, and I am always amazed. Question: during installation was all the insulation and sheet metal removed, that would be put in place during manufacturing, that would regularly stop heat from escaping top or rear(where ever heat zone attaches). I've been building houses my whole life and still need to go back once in a while to remove a plug a plumber or HVAC guy missed during final installations. Only human.

2. Room temp air? What is the temp of the air. I have learned over the years that "room temp" and what should be coming out of the duct can always cause confusion from person to person. Our hands are not great for sensing the moderate temp differences need to heat a room. Air coming from our ducts doesn't necessarily feel warm because it isn't much hotter than "room temp". Add to that the movement of air past the skin and and sometimes that air can actually feel cool. The only way to accurately asses this temp is with a laser thermometer which can be bought at most big box stores or your local plumbing supply. It would be interesting to see temp at register in room vs the temp of the ductwork as it leaves the fireplace. And if it is warm, say 68 deg or so, is there another reason room doesn't warm?

Just some thoughts. In the end, so far, I think I chose the correct fireplace for my needs.

 

[Tom Hockett]

Thanks for your input, Andrew.

This is the first Quadra Fire 7100 that my local dealer in my small town has sold, so he actually knows next to nothing about the stove. He is humble enough to recognise a mistake like you suggested may be possible. But it isn't obvious. Both he and I have looked all over the stove, and searched the installation manual for some piece of sheet metal he may have forgot to remove or a similar problem, but have found nothing. (We have already found the manuals are lacking though). Other dealers raved about the auxiliary air feature. My dealer is calling the factory to discuss the situation with them. If there is a problem like that we want to find it before we encase the fireplace with tile and stone.

Our home is still under construction and I have been running the Quadrafire almost continuously for about 3 weeks now and has been the only source of heat for the drywallers/painters, and other contractors. We are experiencing some fairly cold weather already, and the stove has been performing quite adequately in keeping the house warm enough for contractors (even when we just had a tarp over the garage door opening for the first two weeks with temperatures dipping down in the low teens). When the HVAC system becomes commissioned (maybe late next week) we can use it to help circulate warm air throughout the house as you suggest. Our HVAC return is fairly close to the fireplace so we should be similar to your installation in that respect.

The fireplace is on the other side of the wall from the master bedroom, so we figured we could install the auxiliary air kit and just keep the bedroom and living room warm at night and save energy by not heating the whole house evenly at night. Well, it seems apparent that strategy isn't going to work. The auxiliary fan (running at any speed) doesn't seem to heat the air noticeably. I have not put a thermometer on it to see the temperature rise or gone through the math, but I am experienced enough in thermodynamic applications (with a dose of common sense) to fairly confidently predict that there ain't no way a 3 inch duct with modest air velocity and barely noticeable, if any, delta T is going to provide enough btu's to keep up with the heat loss rate through the outside walls and ceiling of the fairly large bedroom. The radiant heat from the common interior wall will far exceed the energy input that the auxiliary air duct provides. If it doesn't work, it is not the end of the world. But as it stands right now the feature appears to be appreciable useless dollars I invested our home.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

If you guys are referring to the "heat zone kit" then I feel your pain. As a guy who works for a Quad dealer I am less than excited about that kit. Will it raise the temp of an adjacent room a few degrees? Yes. Will it keep an adjacent room 15f warmer? No. It is there for nothing more than a little help. The kit actually attaches to an air cooled chimney system, meaning that not much heat is actually leaving that pipe as it is cool enough to have a 2" clearance. The heat of the kit will be minimal by nature but solid and consistent as long as you have a good fire going.

A lot of dealers have a habit of talking that kit up like it will make the rest of your house roasty mctoasty but when the fire dies and you get your thermometer out at the end of the day, it won't.

As far as the ACC system you need to play with it. It is a different beast. You will figure out when to open it and close it, upon loading and starting fires. It works well but it can also make your life more difficult until you master it.

 

[Tom Hockett]

Thanks for the input, Rocky. You have probably saved me and my dealer from a lot of non-productive head banging. I was expecting the warm & toasty scenerio from the heat zone kit as promised by some of the sales people I talked with. We just keep it there as a reminder of to never believe a salesman
Your assessment on all counts sounds right on.