Quadra Fire Brick - Cracked and Pitted

[glassmanjpf]

I saw a post from a few years back about Quadra Fire crappy brick. I guess they are still using the same junk. I love the stove (Cumberland Gap) but my bricks are cracked and pitted (4 years) and one fell from its post. Is this typical?? I was wondering what I could replace it with and where I can order them from 4"x9"x1.25".

The bricks seem to be very lightweight.

Thanks

 

[Jfk4th]

I have a Quad 5100, I was told (not by a Quad guy however) that you could use any fire brick and that would work the same and a lot cheaper too. Don't know if he is right since this is the same guy that told me the "Dollar Bill Test" was pushing the dollar bill in (not pulling it out) and seeing if it would have resistance with the gasket.....Gotta love wood stove shop guys and think they know everything.
It might be worth a shot to just bring the brick to a stove shop, most places will cut you one for a couple of bucks. Then just keep an eye on the stove for a while and see how she burns.
I remember being told at the Quad store a ways back that their own fire brick was around 75 dollars each...WTH?

 

[MrSplitter]

I needed a brick that size for my stove. Ordered the Rutland bricks, and cut them with a sawzall and carbide blade.

 

[glassmanjpf]

Hey JFK, you confirmed what I heard from the Quad guy as well. He told me that a set of bricks was around 400 -500 dollars. I thought I misunderstood him. If I buy regular firebrick I can cut and trim the pieces to match the dimensions. I'm just not sure of the "insulating properties" I've read about or if I need to be concerned. I certainly would not want to incur hotter temperatures to the steel, walls or pad below.

 

[Stevebass4]

Hey JFK, you confirmed what I heard from the Quad guy as well. He told me that a set of bricks was around 400 -500 dollars. I thought I misunderstood him. If I buy regular firebrick I can cut and trim the pieces to match the dimensions. I'm just not sure of the "insulating properties" I've read about or if I need to be concerned. I certainly would not want to incur hotter temperatures to the steel, walls or pad below.

i used the ace hardware bricks ($3.50 each) in my qf 2100i and they work just fine

 

[begreen]

Agreed, that's a standard sized brick. You can replace it with the lighter weight pumice brick or a standard firebrick.

http://www.firebricks.com/techData.asp

 

[markleyh]

Agreed, that's a standard sized brick. You can replace it with the lighter weight pumice brick or a standard firebrick.

http://www.firebricks.com/techData.asp

Thanks for the link, Green. The Quad bricks are so light that they must be pumice bricks. The heavier bricks with a higher alumina content should add a lot of thermal mass to the stove and improve performance.

Maybe brick replacement should be a performance upgrade for everybody with these stoves.

herbster

 

[precaud]

The Quad bricks are so light that they must be pumice bricks. The heavier bricks with a higher alumina content should add a lot of thermal mass to the stove and improve performance.

Maybe brick replacement should be a performance upgrade for everybody with these stoves.

Performance upgrade? I think not. You don't need or want thermal mass lining the firebox. You want something lightweight that heats up quickly so that the firebox comes up to temperature immediately.

I have three stoves that illustrate this. The Quad has very lightweight bricks, the Nestor Martin has much denser brick, and the Jotul has cast iron liners with a thin sheet of ceramic wool on the outside. Guess which one burns cleanest, warms up the quickest, and is most efficient? Yup, the Quad. Guess which one is worst? Yup, the Jotul. Cast iron is not a good insulator.

Last year I was watching the X33 burn and noticed how long it took for the baffle board (above the fire) to burn clean from a cold start. That baffle is made of the same heavy refractory material as the liners. I bought some 1" 2700º ceramic board, cut it to size, and replaced the original board with it. It burns clean in about 1/3 the time, and burns hotter.

You'd be better off using the factory bricks (or equivalent,) and just be more careful not to jam logs or your fire-tending tools into them when loading. That's what does the damage.

 

[velvetfoot]

I think I was the original 'crappy fire brick' poster.
It's not just the physical damage.
They're like rice cakes and seem to peel off.

 

[begreen]

Great observation Precaud. It's cool that you are constantly tinkering with your stoves. I always learn something from your experiments.

Agreed that performance upgrade might not be a good description. Perhaps it depends on how one uses the stove? If it is often used for evening and weekend fires, then the lightweight bricks seem better for quicker, cleaner heat ups. If the stove is being used 24/7 and doesn't go out for months at a time, yet chews through a whole lot of wood, then a durable firebox may be preferable.

 

[precaud]

patch it with furnace cement /mortar.

Yup, that should work fine. Probably stronger than the brick.

 

[precaud]

Agreed that performance upgrade might not be a good description. Perhaps it depends on how one uses the stove? If it is often used for evening and weekend fires, then the lightweight bricks seem better for quicker, cleaner heat ups. If the stove is being used 24/7 and doesn't go out for months at a time, yet chews through a whole lot of wood, then a durable firebox may be preferable.

Could be, BG. But it's interesting to note that the one with the lighter firebox insulation also has the lowest emissions rating, while the one with heavy cast iron liner has the worst... and the EPA emissions test isn't from a cold start. So stoves benefit from a lighter, hyper-insulated firebox under all operating conditions.

 

[begreen]

Different design stoves make this not an equal test. The only way to really qualify would be to take the best stove and test it under both configurations. If there was a serious increase in emissions, case closed.

 

[precaud]

No, it's not an equal test, but it is illustrative of the differences. And I am absolutely certain that if you took, for example, an F602 and replaced the cast liners with high-temp ceramic board, the stove would burn much cleaner. Look at the Morso 2B standard, very similar geometry and air systems as the F602, but it has refractory lining (the heavier type) throughout, and has emissions output of nearly half. The fact is, cast iron is a poor choice as an insulator, and it does have consequences on performance.

 

[precaud]

After giving this some thought, I've decided it is worth following up on, and am in the process of sourcing some 1/2" ceramic refractory to make replacement liners for the F602 so we can have an "equal test" comparison as BG suggested. Chances are this material will be of the lighter-weight type. It would be nice to have some of the heavier firebrick type too, but I haven't found any sources for it in 1/2" thickness.

I predict in advance that:
1. Performance-wise, the best firebricks for woodstoves are ones that have low-mass and high reflectivity (i.e. whiter in color,) and that the color is probably more important than the mass.
2. The F602 will work substantially better in every respect with refractory liners.

 

[precaud]

I just ordered two 1/2" thick sheets of this stuff for the refractory liners:
http://www.zrci.com/rs1200.htm
Definitely overkill but with that density and hardness it won't fall apart if a piece of wood bumps it.
I also got lucky and will have some 1" vermiculite sheets on the way tomorrow, so I'll be able to compare that stuff too. Someone on eBay is selling them if you're needing any for experiments or to replace damaged panels.

 

[northwinds]

What was the per sheet cost, if you don't mind sharing?

 

[precaud]

I was lucky and got two sheets on eBay, $38 for two 24x24x1/2" sheets. I'm guessing that's maybe 15% of normal cost.

 

[humpin iron]

The lighter bricks, that are stock reflect heat. This creates higher box temps, better EPA readings. Also if you change to the denser yellow bricks it will alter the stoves clearances--got that straight from Quad R&D;. Probley not an issue with inserts, probley is an issue with freestanding stoves.
ALSO A SET OF STOCK QUAD BRICKS ARE ABOUT 75-80 DOLLARS. It's cheaper to buy a whole set than to just buy the bricks with the holes in them.

 

[Donna]

Hi All,

I have often wondered if I could replace some of the expensive propriotorial firebrick, like molded slabs in my Resolute Acclaim.
They are easy to break and expensive to replace.
The ones on the back wall are cracked, but being held together with the metal rods inside.
I figured that I could just "build a brick wall" with the appropriate cut outs at the bottom. Or some variation on this theme.
You know the idle woodburners brain is the devils playground. I just look at those regular fire bricks and think...why not?

Does this sound wacky?

Going through wood here in Quebec like there was no tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[precaud]

The lighter bricks, that are stock reflect heat. This creates higher box temps, better EPA readings.

That's correct. There's a mistaken notion among some in this group about the value of high mass and heat storage in the firebox. The purpose of the firebox lining is to insulate (reflect), not to store. During the flame part of the burn cycle, you want high temps throughout the firebox. After the flames die, the lining serves no purpose. Having a high-mass lining just slows down the response time, which reduces efficiency and burn cleanliness.

I just went through this same exercise with the solar heater I installed. I first did it like the class trombe wall design, a sun space lined with high-mass walls to "store" the heat. Very disappointing results. It takes all day to warm up and loses all the stored heat at night. I then insulated the sunspace interior, hanged a separate heat exchanger, moved the hot air out by fan. Max temps went up 12F and it warms up in matter of minutes, not hours. There's no comparison.

For the most efficient woodstove system, get the mass out of the stove and into the room where it belongs.

High-performance car freaks love power to weight ratio. Stove users should love firebox volume to weight ratio

 

[precaud]

Hi All,

I have often wondered if I could replace some of the expensive propriotorial firebrick, like molded slabs in my Resolute Acclaim.
They are easy to break and expensive to replace.
The ones on the back wall are cracked, but being held together with the metal rods inside.
I figured that I could just "build a brick wall" with the appropriate cut outs at the bottom. Or some variation on this theme.
You know the idle woodburners brain is the devils playground. I just look at those regular fire bricks and think...why not?

Does this sound wacky?

Going through wood here in Quebec like there was no tomorrow.

Cheers.

It wouldn't hurt to try. Make sure the bricks are the same thickness as what is in there now.

 

[jtp10181]

Four years of heavy use and some bricks are toast.... sounds about right unfortunatly. The people whos bricks only last one season are doing something wrong.

Unofficially... using regular bricks should be fine, but its not tested so its an "unknown".