Quadra-fire Castile Problems

[QuadCT]

I recently purchased a house with an older Quadra-fire Castile insert. I have been having an issue with a dirty, lazy flame, and the fire pot just fills up with ash causing the stove to not relight after 4-5 hrs of running. I am at a loss at what could be the problem. I have taken the stove apart and cleaned everything, I have also cleaned the flue and cap on top. The bottom of the fire pot seams tight all the way around with no large gaps. The door gasket was replaced last year and is tight all the way around.

I switched from Maine Wood Pellets to Le Crete pellets, this helped a little but made no real difference.

I removed the combustion motor and there is a slight blade wobble that causes the stove to vibrate. I am not sure if this could be the issue with the poor flame quality or not. The motor is getting 120v from the control board during operation.

Thank you for any help.

 

[xSpecBx]

I believe quad calls for a 4 to 6 inch flame with the fan on high. Are you getting this? If not, have you tried adjusting the feed rate bar inside the hopper?

Additionally, you may want to provide some additional details. How tall is the chimney? What size liner? Outside air kit installed?

There are some great quad people here who should chime in eventually. @kappel15

 

[kappel15]

Did you make sure that entire exhaust path is clear. This means thru stove and every inch of exhaust pipe? Are all holes in pot clear? Including the ones in pot floor? Does the stove have a gray or clear control box? And never mess with the control box without unplugging stove first. kap

 

[QuadCT]

Did you make sure that entire exhaust path is clear. This means thru stove and every inch of exhaust pipe? Are all holes in pot clear? Including the ones in pot floor? Does the stove have a gray or clear control box? And never mess with the control box without unplugging stove first. kap

I have cleaned everything on the exhaust path. There is no holes on the pot floor/trap door. there is only 4 small holes on the bottom of the pot its self and those are clean. The control box is clear. And the control is set on 4.

I have the feed rate all the way down and on high the flame is at least 6" above the top of the fire pot. The flue is 4" stainless steel liner. the chimney is about 15' and does not have an outside air kit. I also have a CB 1200 insert in the basement that is running great.

 

[kappel15]

Sorry, that is what I meant with the 4 holes. There are also holes around the walls of the pot too. Since you have another stove downstairs, can you tell if the stove upstairs exhaust fan is not running fast enough? Does the pot have a gasket under it? Can you tell if any of the air is blowing up around there instead of thru the pot? kap

 

[Former Farmer]

I removed the combustion motor and there is a slight blade wobble that causes the stove to vibrate.

Is it possible that the fan blade is loose on the motor shaft or the combustion motor was changed out to a lower rpm motor?

 

[xSpecBx]

Would opening the door with it running prove anything? I would think if there is an air leak it would stay about the same. Any thoughts?

 

[QuadCT]

Is there anyway to check the gasket under the fire pot. I shined a light around the fire pot and can not see any light going under the fire pot. Is it usually hard to get the bolts out to pull the fire pot out, I don't want to break a bolt. I would rather try the fire pot gasket before trying a new motor. It is hard to tell how fast the fan is spinning. I had pulled the stove out from the fireplace and plugged it in to run the fan, I placed my hand on the flange and the motor started to spin faster and move more air, I am not sure if that is normal or not.

I have opened the door when running and very little effect on the flame.

Again Thank you for the help

 

[kappel15]

If you can open the door on the stove, and the flame doesn't change, you definitely have an airflow problem, whether there is some blockage you didn't find, or the exhaust fan is not running enough. If the stove has ran, and there is ash around the firepot, you would see if it blows it away from the pot rim, or if it lets it pile up around it. And yes, those pot bolts can get froze into place with rust. If you ever do get them out, put some high temp anti-seize grease on em before you put them back in. And the fan should run at a good speed no matter what. It shouldn't pick up speed because you leaned on something. kap

 

[DMKNLD]

Welcome to this forum, Quad CT! A lazy flame / poor burn efficiency is, in a nutshell, a symptom of one (or combination of) 3 things - a fuel delivery / quality issue, a leak / vacuum issue, or a venting / restriction issue. La Crete pellets are among the best, so that should rule out pellet quality issues, assuming they didn't get wet at some point and powder back into clumpy sawdust.

As far as leaks - you've got a new door gasket, but could have a fire pot air leak if your pot gasket is partially or completely missing. Mine was missing when I inherited my Castile from our prior home owner - I had a crappy burn for better part of that year before I found out there was supposed to be a gasket there. You should be able to see if there is a high temp foam type gasket between the fire pot and the hole in the bottom of your fire box that it lives in. See pics below.

Yes, the fire pot bolts can be a PITA to get out. I had to cut mine off with a dremel cutting disc they were so corroded / heat welded. I put some high temp never - seize liquid on the new bolts when I replaced the gasket and have had the fire pot out twice since then to clean it w/o problems.

Besides no pot gasket, I found that my 2001 Castile OEM ceramic pot was hairline cracked, also contributing to a less efficient burn, so I replaced it with the upgraded cast steel fire pot. How old is your 'older model' Castile insert? I'm not sure what model year they replaced the ceramic pots, so you may still have the OEM ceramic pot, or perhaps the prior owner upgraded to the newer steel one ?

If all your above mentioned gaskets are in place and in good shape, and your fire pot isn't leaking in excess air via too big of a fire pot clean-out plate gap, then it sounds like that leaves your combustion blower as a likely culprit, or your venting system.

As F F inquired about above, your blower motor impeller fan blade is held onto the shaft with a small hex set screw - has that possibly loosened from the blower motor shaft and is partially 'free - spinning' ? Any blower bearing noise / grinding when you spin the blade ? Fan speed changes when you 'had your hand on the flange' makes the blower sounds suspect.

RE your venting. Page 11 under section G of the Castile insert manual (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7022_122.pdf) says the chimney it's vented into "Must be minimum 6 inch (152mm) inside diameter of high temperature chimney listed to UL 103 HT (2100oF) or ULC-S629." You mentioned you're venting into a 4" lined flue.

We've had some 'spirited discussions' on this forum of recent on Quad stove related venting into existing chimneys, so I'll defer to TJ, Former Farmer, and other Castile insert owners on this forum who are more familiar with chimney venting issues than me, with my Castile being a direct vented free-standing.

But I'm questioning if perhaps your flue may be under-sized for the 'forced draft' required to pull the air out of your stove and push it through your venting, even if your combustion blower were working 100%? What do you have for a termination vent at the top of the chimney ? I know that can affect your draft / burn efficiency as well.

I've blathered on long enough, I'll let other Castile insert owners shoulder on from here on their thoughts RE venting and any blower related thoughts. Good luck !

 

[xSpecBx]

According to the manual you posted he should be fine with a 4" liner. The 6" is for a prebuilt chimney and says that if he doesn't meet certain requirements to use a liner.

Nice way to put that other "discussion" as "spirited"

 

[DMKNLD]

According to the manual you posted he should be fine with a 4" liner. The 6" is for a prebuilt chimney and says that if he doesn't meet certain requirements to use a liner.

Nice way to put that other "discussion" as "spirited"

Yes, "spirited" can, at times, be synonymous with "engaging". And at other times, more indicative of "the defecation hitting the oscillation". LOL.

I digress......

OK, I re-read his OP - so he's running a 4" stainless liner all the way up his existing chimney flue I gather. The variety of chimney install variables seems to cause a host of potential issues for pellet venting applications. Could his termination vent still be overly restricting the air flow ?

If not, it seems like he's got to be looking at his combustion blower, or a control board issue affecting his combustion blower speed, perhaps, as a 'last option' reason for his airflow problem.

 

[xSpecBx]

I haven't looked, but the OP said he has a CB 1200 as well. Wonder if the parts are the same? If so might be worth swapping the board and/or the blower to see if that resolves the issue.

Could be dangerous because than you may have 2 not fully functioning stoves. OP would have to decide if he's willing to mess with it.

 

[DMKNLD]

Roger that.

Kap can confirm this, but I believe the control boards are interchangeable between the CB and the Castile, but the combustion blowers I don't believe are.

 

[kappel15]

As long as the stoves are unplugged when removing and installing control boxes, he is fine. The blowers on the other hand as DM suggested, are not interchangeable.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don't forget to check around your air intake for a pile up of crud it isn't just the exhaust side that can screw up airflow.

 

[QuadCT]

I cleaned the stove again last night and checked the fire pot gasket and it looks like it is good all around. I started the stove and it ran great for a few hours, it had a real white active flame but after a while the fire pot just slowly filled with ash and the fire got lazy. The stove seams to run better longer on high setting. I have very little to no ash outside the fire pot.

I am think about trying a new combustion motor. Do you recommend a OEM replacement or is there an aftermarket with better performance to help with the airflow?

 

[kappel15]

I would try shutting it down and dumping pot and restarting it. See if it does as you said above. If the only reason it acts up is because the pot fills with ash, maybe it still is the fuel? Don't hurt to try another brand before spending big bucks on a new fan. kap

 

[DMKNLD]

La Cretes are one of the hotter cleaner burning 100% softwood brands - I'm burning them as we speak. Although each stove certainly has individual pellet burning tolerances, it would seem his L C pellets would be less likely to be the problem.

Maybe a thought is to pull the heat exchanger baffle and the right side rear fire box plate, then start the stove up so you can visualize and listen better to the combustion blower function?

Is it varying in speed, making rumbling or scraping noises, slowing down over time ? You mentioned in your first post that your impeller fan blade had some 'wobble' when you took it out. Watching and listening to it to see if this is reproduce-able when it is running in the stove may help narrow it down to your blower motor being the definitive culprit.

 

[kappel15]

Looking at pics, wondering if blades are loose on shaft? If it is that style.

 

[DMKNLD]

He could have someone else hold the blower shaft from the backside of the stove via the external plastic / nylon impeller wheel, while he tries to spin the fan blade from the fire box side, once he's removed the right side cast plate, to see if it's loose on the shaft.

 

[xSpecBx]

I tried a couple bags of lacretes in my 1200i and they burned great with low ash. I agree that it is most likely not the fuel

 

[QuadCT]

Cleaned the stove again after about 6 hrs of running on high and the pictures below are the results, one is the ash plan after emptying the fire pot. It started off great but slowly became lazy. It was hard to tell if the motor varied rpm when running. And the blade seams to not be lose on the shaft.

I also learned that there is airflow/baffle upgrade for the stove. (link to upgrade kit) I am not sure if this would help or would just cover the root cause of the problem.

 

[kappel15]

That's not a lot of ash for 6 hrs. burning.Did you ever make sure that all the holes around the walls of the pot are clean? You can get the pots half full of ash and they still burn good. Something is still not right with the air flow.

 

[Burd]

Cleaned the stove again after about 6 hrs of running on high and the pictures below are the results, one is the ash plan after emptying the fire pot. It started off great but slowly became lazy. It was hard to tell if the motor varied rpm when running. And the blade seams to not be lose on the shaft.

I also learned that there is airflow/baffle upgrade for the stove. (link to upgrade kit) I am not sure if this would help or would just cover the root cause of the problem.

QuadeCT
I was getting the same results In may Burn pot as you. You stated that you replaced your gasket. Do you know if your air wash is on the top or bottom?
DMLNLD/Kap and other can get hotter burns by closing off the air wash> If you put six inch pieces of tad pole gasket on both sides of the air wash you'll pull more air through the burn pot. This will also keep the burn pot from building up with ash. the down fall is the Glass will gett dirty.