Quadra Fire CB1200 backdraft / smell when cold

[upstateNY363]

Hi everyone. I'm about at my wits end and hope someone can help me. I have a new quadrafire cb 1200 which was installed (new stove and new install to a room that hadn't had one before) in April of this year, burned once before cleaning and shutting down for the season. the stove is direct vented through the wall and outside.
It's been cold in upstate NY so the stove has been burning for a few weeks (not turning on regular heating yet) but the last few days have been in the 70s so no stove.
I'm finding that when the stove is off, not running, completely room temp, I'm getting a smoky smell coming through the stove and into the room.
the stove is clean, vacuumed out, door/ash pan are securely closed & tight, surrounding area and the room is fully vacuumed so it's not like there's ash anywhere. there's no smell or smoke coming out at all when the stove is running, so I don't think it's a leak in any of the venting pipes, it's only when the stove is cold/completely off/has been off for hours. Is it possible theres some kind of backdraft? I called the dealer where I got it and asked their service guy about this and he said he's never heard of a stove smelling like that before.
at this.
Is there anything I can do to stop this from happening? The smoky smell aggravates my partner's allergies terribly and besides that it doesn't smell good in general. Thank you in advance for any guidance!!

 

[ARC]

Can you post and describe your venting , length, elbows, 3 inch 4 inch, using existing chimney, especially the outside? Most likely getting down draft in cold vent. What do you have for end cap on vent and is it facing the prevailing winds in your area.

 

[johneh]

direct vented through the wall and outside

Welcome to the forum
Maybe direct wind into the exhaust vent?
I have never seen a pellet stove backdraft except on a direct vent facing prevailing winds

 

[upstateNY363]

Thanks for the replies!
Here are pictures of the venting. the vent is on the northeast corner of the house and a quick google search is telling me prevailing wind is typically out of the west. If wind into the exhaust vent is the problem, is there something I can do about that?

 

[ARC]

Venting looks good, try turning the end cap a quarter turn to right or left. If that does not help you might end up putting a clean out t outside and going 3 feet vertical then 1 foot horizontal ending with your end cap. That would create a natural draw.

 

[upstateNY363]

Awesome thanks I'll try this!!

 

[ARC]

How tight is your house, ie insulation, door seals, new widows? Are you running any thing that uses air when you smell the stove, Dryer, range hood, bathroom exhaust fan, hot air furnace, hot water boiler? If your house is real tight you might be drawing air though the stove. Try cracking a window and see if the smell goes away. If your house is real tight and cracking a windows works you might want to add a Outside Air Kit/OAK can also be called a Fresh Air Kit/FAC.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/outside-air-kit-for-quadra-fire-cb-1200-question.73329/

 

[upstateNY363]

My house is not that tight, but it's occurring to me that the draftiest window and doors are on the complete opposite side of the house from the air movers, so I'm wondering if since the stove is closer that's more "the path of least resistance" for pulling in air.
I have a vent over my stove, and all the bathrooms have a fan/vent in the ceiling. if I was going to crack a window, where in relation to all those air movers and the stove makes the most sense to crack a window to help with the airflow? and should I leave it cracked open all winter/burning season?
here's a quick drawing of my first floor which shows where the stove is, the drafty windows, all the other windows, and the air movers.

 

[ARC]

I think the one you put the arrow from would be the best 3 living room window. Just crack it for testing purposes if smell goes away you would then want to install a Outside Air Kit on your stove. Also watch the quality of your fire if you crack that window with fire going and fire gets better/more active that is another way to tell if Outside Air Kit would help.

I would still start with just twisting the vent end cap to the right or left a 8th of a turn.

 

[ARC]

Ask your dealer/service tech about a Outside Air Kit, and sealing up stove then all air in and out of burn chamber would be outside air. Kit is not cheap for your stove but dealer might give you a deal.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/outside-air-kit-for-quadra-fire-cb-1200-question.73329/

 

[upstateNY363]

I have the vent cap twisted an eighth of a turn to the right but in doing so, with the way the wind blows at my house, having that third window in the living room cracked leads to the exhaust pouring right in through the window crack. I've instead cracked a kitchen window and smell seems to have gone away. if having the window cracked seems to have solved the "smoky" smell in the house when the stove is cold, does that indicate I should get the OAK? also, fwiw, having the window cracked like that makes the stove ignite fully in 5 minutes or less, before it was taking 6-7 to get a full flame.
also, is that something I can install by myself or does it make more sense to have the dealer/service techs do it?
thanks again for all the replies, this has been so helpful

 

[ARC]

is that something I can install by myself

Yes you can install yourself not that hard to do. I was hoping if you bought that stove from dealer they would do the right thing and install one for free. If cracking window made stove start better then I would say OAK would be a good idea.

 

[upstateNY363]

Sorry for the long delay in reply but I wanted to give it a few days to see if adjusting the exhaust vent and having a window cracked would solve the problem completely. I'm still having a bit of a backdraft with the smell when the stove is cold but way WAY less often. I'm trying to understand how an OAK would stop air from coming back into the house; would I need to seal around parts of the stove too so that no more air can seep into the room, or is there something about the OAK that stops air from flowing back into the house? I know from reading the other post that my stove isn't a "tight system" but just want to fully understand the problem & solution before I buy/install something else. thank you in advance for any extra information! I so appreciate all the help y'all have been already

 

[johneh]

OAK means Outside Air Kit
Your stove is already sealed except where combustion air enters
so in theory with an Oak the combustion air is an outside-to-outside loop
not allowing any backdraft into your home Hense no smokey smell

 

[ARC]

Sorry wrote this yesterday and never hit post reply, senior moment.

Yes you would have to seal up some areas on the stove, then the only air going in or out of the stove would be through the OAK and pellet vent stove would no longer draw or backdraft house air.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/outside-air-kit-for-quadra-fire-cb-1200-question.73329/

 

[upstateNY363]

thanks both for the replies. that makes sense - making the stove more of a closed system. I just called and left a voicemail for the dealer so hopefully they can help me out getting the OAK purchased & installed (and hopefully not for a crazy price!). I read that other post and see from the pictures/descriptions where they sealed it up with silicone too. would you think I'd need to seal up all the little screw holes in the base inside the doors, too? i attached a pic of what I mean, for reference.
also I have an unrelated question as a total pellet stove newbie, what's a normal amount of ash to come out of the exhaust pipe? it's direct vented and the exhaust pipe comes out on my side porch. I have tiles down covering the wood during the burn season but I find I'm having to vacuum/sweep the ash outside semi regularly so it doesn't track indoors on shoes. wasnt sure if this is normal or not. it's not a ton, but enough that after a few days there's a visible fine layer.
thanks again for all the help!

 

[upstateNY363]

I finally got the OAK installed yesterday, and was hoping this would solve the backdraft/smell issues. The dealer said sealing anything with high temp silicone inside the stove itself was a bad idea, so I haven't done anything with that yet. My partner suggested we close the window we'd had cracked just to see if the stove is truly no longer having air pulled through it, but I'm sitting here tonight with the bad smell seeping back through the stove as it's currently been off for about 2 hours. Our house is very tight - windows close tightly, it has that rigid foam sheeting insulation (previous owners went wild when they renovated), do you think I should still keep a window cracked open? And also, if the OAK should make the stove more of a closed system, why would the smell still be coming back through? Thanks in advance for any insight anyone might have.

 

[johneh]

I do not think you have a back draft problem
more likely air is being pulled through the stove to replace
air that is being evacuated somewhere else, for example
bathroom fan or stove fan

 

[upstateNY363]

I think you're probably right since OAK did not solve it. Is there anything to do about this that you are aware of, or just keeping a window open elsewhere in the house so the air can be replaced that is being evacuated from the bathroom fan/stove vent?

 

[stoveliker]

Do you have a radon system continuously pumping?

 

[upstateNY363]

Do you have a radon system continuously pumping?

No I don't - no radon system here. There's the stove vent/bathroom vents, and then there really isn't anything else that, off the top of my head, I would think of as an air mover. I have a propane boiler that powers radiant heat and an inverse water heater connected to the boiler, but all of the radiant zones are off because the pellet stove is putting out enough heat for the whole house right now (so the boilier is running only to power the hot water heater right now essentially).

 

[ARC]

I would take a incense stick and go around the base of your stove when off and find were the draft is coming out of the stove. Then decide if you can seal it. It does not have to be a permanent seal might just take a piece of flat gasket or thin piece of ceramic fiber under the base of your stove to seal. Quads are know to be a leaky stove.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finished-classic-bay-1200-oak-but-there-are-concerns.53518/

https://firewoodhoardersclub.com/fo...a-quadrafire-cb-1200-back-panel-cutout.20802/