Quadra-Fire Voyageur Insert - Too much air intake? How to run? UPDATE VIDEO

[Rick8325]

Hello everyone! I recently installed my Voyageur and it gives some decent heat and looks great however I'm having an issue with the burn rate. It seems to be over-firing, meaning the flames are rolling up over the baffle and wool blanket. I cannot seem to control the burn rate. The burn rate lever doesn't seem to open or close anything and there's no real resistance when moving the lever up or down. It's almost like it's not connected to anything. This may be how it is as I do not know anyone else that has this stove. There's no OAK installed. The plate by the blower fan was removed during installation. I can feel with my hand, a ton of cooler air being sucked into the bottom of the stove by the blower. I'm getting burn rates of 1 hour with an extremely hot fire and big flames. The wood is dry and is hardwood (I also used kiln dried wood for one load). I called Quadra-Fire and the rep said the stove was getting too much air causing the fire to rip at all times. The glass is getting really black. I have used this stove 4 times since I installed it the other day. Today was the first time out of the 4 loads that the insert was blowing smoke in the room with the insert door closed. I guess it's called negative pressure...? I just cracked open my exterior door and it stopped smoking within a second. Does anyone have any pointers or comments, I like the insert and it's throwing good heat but it seems dangerous and is eating wood like crazy.

Thanks!
-Rick

 

[begreen]

The first thing to do is determine if the air control is actually connected. Also, the ACC needs to be checked to be sure it's not stuck open. Have you measured the stove temps? What are they reading? Usually black glass does not happen with a very hot stove so another thing to check is to make sure the door is sealing correctly. You can do this by closing the cold door on a dollar bill and trying to pull it out. It should have some tension on it so that tug is required to move it. If there is no tension then the gasket is leaking.

Did a dealer install this insert? Have they come out and checked the insert? Seems like it may be warranted.

Is there a stainless liner connected to the stove? If so, how tall is the liner?

 

[Rick8325]

The first thing to do is determine if the air control is actually connected. Also, the ACC needs to be checked to be sure it's not stuck open. Have you measured the stove temps? What are they reading? Usually black glass does not happen with a very hot stove so another thing to check is to make sure the door is sealing correctly. You can do this by closing the cold door on a dollar bill and trying to pull it out. It should have some tension on it so that tug is required to move it. If there is no tension then the gasket is leaking.

Did a dealer install this insert? Have they come out and checked the insert? Seems like it may be warranted.

Is there a stainless liner connected to the stove? If so, how tall is the liner?

Thanks for the reply! I don't have the equipment to get temps. The door is closing very tightly but I cannot do the dollar bill test until it cools. A chimney company installed it. The chimney is 25' with a 6" liner. The liner was wrapped in insulation before it was dropped. This is an exterior wall fireplace. There's also roxul around where the old fireplace damper was. I didn't have the dealer's recommended installer because he was booked forever. It is warrantied.

 

[begreen]

Liner sounds good. It would really help to get a temp reading on the stove. Are you using the ACC and the Burn (air) control?

 

[Rick8325]

The ACC directions are kind of confusing to me. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what I'm doing. Now the fire is only staying lit with the door cracked. I've been trying all different lever settings. I don't see any mention how the burn rate lever works in the manual. What is it opening and why can't I feel something sliding when I adjust the lever. I did just finally get it to flame with the door closed. This really stinks because with the price of install and the stove this is starting to seem like a bad investment without much return.

 

[Rick8325]

I did the dollar bill test on the door this morning. It's tight and I could not pull the bill out in the 10 or so spots that I tried.

 

[Jags]

My guess is that we are dealing with the very common "learning curve" of a new owner. It is basically the time it takes for the new owner to learn the stove and its operation.
Without some way to measure temp it is the equivalent of driving your car without a speedometer. You can only guess where you are at. This makes it more difficult to make calculated adjustments to your stove.

 

[Rick8325]

Sorry for my ignorance but please help me understand why the temp means anything if I can see that it is over-firing and burning logs really fast? The flames are rolling up over the baffle boards and ceramic blanket towards the top collar to the liner for the majority of the burn. Is there some cheapo temp gauge I can get somewhere and does it go inside the stove on the glass?

 

[Jags]

Can you see 600F or 800F? I can't - and I have been doing this for awhile. Last night I had a fire going that was just a glow with secondaries gently rolling. Surprised myself when I walked up to a 750F stove. Even the stage of the fire will yield different looks compared to different temps.
Yes - there are many outlets for stove thermos at relatively cheap bucks. Home depot, Lowes, Menards, Hardware stores, online, stove shops...these are very common items (and for a reason).

 

[Slow1]

Is the stove glowing? If not then you really can't know if it is overfiring without a temperature reading. Huge "gates of hell" flames are not necessarily a bad thing as secondary burns are supposed to hot and clean. Your description may actually be a good healthy burn.

Stove thermometers are available at any stove shop and many hardware stores - $10-50 depending on the mark-up and just how 'cheapo" you want to go.

 

[Jags]

To explain a bit...the most common answer to your question about rolling flames is to obviously "shut the air down". But the problem is - if you are only at a 300F stove temp while this is happening - it might not be the "right" answer. We just don't know without some hard info. Your "rolling" flames could be something completely different than mine.

 

[Rick8325]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know the auto fan won't click on even with the huge fire so maybe it's not getting as hot as I think. Where do these thermos go? I don't know if I need something different because it's an insert. If the temps are cooler than it should be what would be some adjustments that would need to be made if the wood is burning high and really fast. The glass is about 60% black from 4 fires.

 

[Jags]

Black glass is not usually indicative of a "too hot" fire. Just the opposite.
An insert can be tricky to measure temps. Often the best solution is to find a spot and then use the temps recorded in relationship to the burn. What I mean by that is - if you choose a spot (like the top left of the insert, just for example) and you find that 400F in that spot really makes for a very active, hot fire - use that temp as a reference point.
Others have found that an IR thermo can be aimed at areas (think top of stove box) that a regular thermo can't get to. And they are just down right fun multi-taskers.

 

[begreen]

I am guessing that the air is not being controlled correctly. And perhaps this is being compounded by poorly seasoned wood. If so, it's not the stove but the user that is on a learning curve here. The ACC control is a bit more complex and damp wood is a big pain to work with. My guess is that the stove is being run with the air wide open via either the ACC or the primary control. I have to head to work here but hopefully someone will walk you through the steps in the manual. Ideally it would be another Voyageur owner.

 

[Rick8325]

Geez I was worried that because of the wild fire I have had the past 3 burns that I had an out of control hot box going in there and it does make sense that the black glass means it's not but I'm getting worried what the flames should look like if it's as hot as it should be. I'll see if I can borrow an IR thermo from someone. I can still access my stove pipe because my oversize trim piece for my fireplace opening hasn't arrived yet. My dealer and installer is absolutely useless when it comes to explaining the workings to a newbie and so is Quadra-Fire's customer support.

 

[Jags]

I agree with BG - it would be nice if another voyager owner with some experience would show up to help. Each stove has a little bit different attitude.
Stove pipe temps would at least be a starting point.

 

[begreen]

It is a bit intimidating at first, especially if you haven't run a stove before. Take it in small steps.

What size pieces of wood (splits) are you burning Rick? Tell us your procedure for starting and running the fire.

 

[Slow1]

Just be patient and work with folks - most of us old timers can give general guidance on any stove, but eventually someone with the same stove will show up and give more specific advice/guidance.

One thing to understand is that you can actually get more fire in the box with a lower air setting (seems counter-intuitive) - i.e. if air is fully open you may get a large primary burn (on the wood), but if you shut the air down a bit in a hot firebox then the secondaries (top, tubes etc) can really get going and give quite a flame show.

The number one issue that folks usually have is their fuel. Read up a bit here on 'seasoned' wood and you will quickly learn that unless you stack your own wood for a couple years you likely don't have really dry wood. Around my part of Mass oak is very common - this is great in a way, but most oak takes 2-3 years in our climate to dry naturally once split/stacked.

 

[Rick8325]

It is a bit intimidating at first, especially if you haven't run a stove before. Take it in small steps.

What size pieces of wood (splits) are you burning Rick? Tell us your procedure for starting and running the fire.

It certainly is intimidating. I grew up in a big city too and never had a fireplace or knew anyone with one. The wood is about 12-14". The wood is the same size as those bags you can buy at a gas station. I even tried one of those bags and was getting the same result with the burn rate. The wood I get is stacked high in mounds and it's been there for about 2-3 years. When they cut up new wood it goes in the back of the pile. I pick my stuff from the front of the pile off the ground. The wood is dry and cracked all over. It's dark grayish-brown and hardwood (no pine). There are a boat load of piles that I have access to. The wood is free.

To start a fire I get about 6-8 hardwood kindling sticks and put them in a square. The stove already has a decent ash pit because it has burnt everything to a nice ash. I crumble up a few pieces of newspaper and place it in the middle of the kindling sticks. I light a match and make sure the smoke goes up. The kindling takes off pretty quick and within about 5 minutes I throw a log in then another after a few minutes. I only lit 4 fires so far but only 1 time I had to crack the insert door to get it going for a few mins. The last fire I started last night blew smoke in the room. The smoke was coming out from the top right burn rate lever. I opened my house door a crack and it drafted better instantly (neg pressure?). I'm still wondering why smoke would come out with the insert door closed (gasket is good I did the dollar bill test this morning).

 

[Paul L]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know the auto fan won't click on even with the huge fire so maybe it's not getting as hot as I think. Where do these thermos go? I don't know if I need something different because it's an insert. If the temps are cooler than it should be what would be some adjustments that would need to be made if the wood is burning high and really fast. The glass is about 60% black from 4 fires.

I have been using a Grand Voyageur now for less than a month. Still learning but I'll try to help ... the one thing you've said here that stands out is that the fan will not kick on in auto mode. The glass on my stove was like tar paper early on. When the weather turned colder and we started burning hotter, it made a huge difference with the glass. Black glass and no auto fan engagement suggests a low temp burn.

Where we need to start here is by trying to understand why your auto fan is not kicking on. Make sure the fan speed is not set to "off" .... if you turn the switch from auto to manual the fan will come on, verifying that the fan speed is set correctly. My fan kicks on well after the fire gets going well .... about 25 minutes or so. My stove loves the "top down" start ... that was the first adjustment we made to get a better burn. Search this forum or you tube and you will get good info on top down starts. My stove much prefers it and I'm sure yours is the same. We leave the door cracked on start up until the fire is fully engaged. I have not used an IR thermometer yet as it is wrapped in Christmas paper , so I can' t talk temps right now, but they are on sale for less than $30 at Harbor Freight.

I also wondered at first if the air intake control was hooked up because there is no resistance at all when moving the control arm. If the fire is raging It Is hard to see any immediate difference when I turn the air down. It is at lower burn rates that I can tell a difference but still the result Is not immediate.

 

[Rick8325]

I have been using a Grand Voyageur now for less than a month. Still learning but I'll try to help ... the one thing you've said here that stands out is that the fan will not kick on in auto mode. The glass on my stove was like tar paper early on. When the weather turned colder and we started burning hotter, it made a huge difference with the glass. Black glass and no auto fan engagement suggests a low temp burn.

Where we need to start here is by trying to understand why your auto fan is not kicking on. Make sure the fan speed is not set to "off" .... if you turn the switch from auto to manual the fan will come on, verifying that the fan speed is set correctly. My fan kicks on well after the fire gets going well .... about 25 minutes or so. My stove loves the "top down" start ... that was the first adjustment we made to get a better burn. Search this forum or you tube and you will get good info on top down starts. My stove much prefers it and I'm sure yours is the same. We leave the door cracked on start up until the fire is fully engaged. I have not used an IR thermometer yet as it is wrapped in Christmas paper , so I can' t talk temps right now, but they are on sale for less than $30 at Harbor Freight.

I also wondered at first if the air intake control was hooked up because there is no resistance at all when moving the control arm. If the fire is raging It Is hard to see any immediate difference when I turn the air down. It is at lower burn rates that I can tell a difference but still the result Is not immediate.

Paul, thanks for the reply! I did check the knob of the fan to make sure it wasn't clicked to off. I waited about 35-40 minutes then thought "wow this is getting hot enough" and flipped the switch to manual. I'm really nervous now that if my fires aren't hot enough now with the flames rolling over the baffles and ceramic blanket up towards the collar/liner to get this thing going even hotter I feel like it would be dangerous. I don't even know what the burn rate lever is moving on the inside....

 

[begreen]

Rick, it sounds like the smoke spillage was a puffback, probably from squelching a fire too much. The wood sound good so I think the main thing to focus on is technique.

 

[Rick8325]

Rick, it sounds like the smoke spillage was a puffback, probably from squelching a fire too much. The wood sound good so I think the main thing to focus on is technique.

Can it backpuff with the stove door closed and locked? It wasn't a lot of smoke to set off the smoke detector in the room but it was definitely coming from the burn rate lever. The smoke stopped when I cracked open my house door.

 

[Paul L]

Rick, after you've set the fan to manual and the fire's been going a while ... does the fan stay on if you switch back to "auto?" If not, this part of your problem sounds like a warranty issue and your dealer will have to get involved whether he wants to or not.

 

[Rick8325]

Rick, after you've set the fan to manual and the fire's been going a while ... does the fan stay on if you switch back to "auto?" If not, this part of your problem sounds like a warranty issue and your dealer will have to get involved whether he wants to or not.

Paul, I'm pretty sure I have had the stove on for awhile and when I clicked it to auto it remained on and it shut off on its own when the stove cooled. I'll have to check it again. I have had it where when switching from manual to auto the fan shut off, meaning it wasn't hot enough in the firebox...?