quadrafire discovery too warm

[JimCap]

I'm having the same issue with a New Discovery 2 (3 weeks old) that is very similar construction if not the same as yours. I had the dealer out and called the manufacture. Dealer stated it was a weird burn (my words) and manufacture stated it was normal. Here is what I got. If you load a log (spilt) at a time the stove runs great and controllable , around 350 degs.. If you load it like your going to leave for a bit or load it up for a long burn time like going to bed, then the stove will have this Huge temp swing. 350 to 700+... The top end being past 700 as it pegs my thermometer that has a 700 limit. If you 1-2 logs or splits, the running temp is around 300-400 and controllable and nice even heat/output. However anything over 600 it warms things up pretty fast.

I understand the need for that but not when the house is already warm. So here is what I've done. Pulled the sides off to expose the controls. found the controls all closing like they should. so I started rolling up tin foil and closing the temp control setting on the rolled up tin foil and loaded it up again.. The darn thing still pegged the meter at 700.. I had the dealer present when I did this and he was amazed. He called Quad and they told him it was running properly and they need the air to meet EPA (which I believe) and that "all stoves" that are EPA approved run this way. (This I don't Believe). Manufacture stated many people mess with the air control like I did, to improve burn control and only end up with a creosote monster. (i'm not sure I believe that either, because at 700 degs I think it would burn the creosote, I'm sure someone will enlighten me on that in here) So if I were you, would check your side controls and make sure they r closing as designed and the leaking door gasket. Which I did on mine too but for got to write about it. Sorry

I'm trying to return my for a refund, Keeping fingers crossed and will go with a BK like I wanted. My problem is the size/shape of the stove needs to fit in my location. If you have any questions just yell..

Thanks for the add to the forums

Jim

 

[begreen]

Moved to it's own thread. This sounds like a misunderstanding of the ACC operation. The ACC is primarily as startup air control. It is not a full thermostatic operation. Te rate of the burn is controlled by the burn rate control (air supply), the size of the splits loaded and the operator. Turning down the air sooner on a full load can help reduce peak burn temp if the firebox is packed tight with larger splits.

That said, it sounds like there is a desire for a more appliance like thermostatic burn. In that case, this stove probably not going to work well. Switching to a BK with thermostatic operation will provide a slower burn in milder weather.

 

[JimCap]

Moved to it's own thread. This sounds like a misunderstanding of the ACC operation. The ACC is primarily as startup air control. It is not a full thermostatic operation. Te rate of the burn is controlled by the burn rate control (air supply), the size of the splits loaded and the operator. Turning down the air sooner on a full load can help reduce peak burn temp if the firebox is packed tight with larger splits.

That said, it sounds like there is a desire for a more appliance like thermostatic burn. In that case, this stove probably not going to work well. Switching to a BK with thermostatic operation will provide a slower burn in milder weather.

Hello begreen

Since you moved this to its own thread let me give you some more info.. the ACC is off or closed. Fire is burned down as it evening and house is warm. Temp control is set to low. Again house is warm. Load it up, don't touch controls and huge temp swing as started. The only change is when it happens. Low coal bed later, hot coal bed sooner. Thanks for making it's own topic . All input is needed. Thanks in advance.

 

[Dustin]

I’ve owned two quads in the past 10 years. Both breathed very, very well and often ran at about 700 degrees on a full load with dry wood. They’re difficult to “slow down” like you would like. They often have blast furnace secondaries. They’re just not built to run low and slow.

 

[JimCap]

Since you moved this to its own thread let me give you some more info.. the ACC is off or closed. Fire is burned down as it evening and house is warm. Temp control is set to low. Again house is warm. Load it up, don't touch controls and huge temp swing as started. The only change is when it happens. Low coal bed later, hot coal bed sooner. Thanks for. Asking it's own too as input is needed

I’ve owned two quads in the past 10 years. Both breathed very, very well and often ran at about 700 degrees on a full load with dry wood. They’re difficult to “slow down” like you would like. They often have blast furnace secondaries. They’re just not built to run low and slow.

I'm finding that out.. Unfortunately that does not work for me..

 

[begreen]

You can finesse your burning technique to reduce level out the burn cycle a bit, but it's still not going to provide thermostatic even heat. A cast iron clad stove like the Quad Explorer series will be better because the jacket of the stove absorbs some of the heat peak and then later transfers it to the room as the fire dies down, but it is still not thermostatic. The Quadrafire Adventure series is their only thermostatic stove that can run at a low btu rate.

Blaze King stoves are both thermostatic and catalytic. This allows the catalyst to burn up the smoldering smoke that non-Cat stoves burn up in secondary combustion, thus providing a low heat burn. This too has to be within reason. Milder weather also brings lower draft. The stove will still need to be providing about 10-12,000 btus of heat in order to not stall the cat.

 

[kennyp2339]

Manometer, check your draft without the tin foil cruising at 3 different temp levels.. 350, 500, 600+ then do the same with the tin foil covering the air, report it to your dealer and customer support. I'm starting to think that many stoves are tested with much tighter control tolerances and if the stove is ran with a 15ft 6" pipe and the end user has a 25ft chimney the engineered stove is going to behave different, technology hasn't caught up to it yet.
I think as stoves become more efficient (cleaner burning) in the next few year, there's going to be testing done with different flue heights and I wouldn't be surprised to see a stove company create an air guard for the secondary inlets for different chimney drafts.

 

[JimCap]

The tin foil makes no difference when the stove is 1/2 to full load.. They both hit 700+.. I cant believe that the stove can run with that much flame with supposedly no air getting to it. So I know there is a leak somewhere... Quad have washed there hands of me.. I hope the dealer has not yet

 

[begreen]

It's not leaking and it's not the stove. EPA stoves are designed to not smolder. The secondary air is unregulated.

 

[JimCap]

It's not leaking and it's not the stove. EPA stoves are designed to not smolder. The secondary air is unregulated.

Help me out here.. If its not leaking air,, And its not the stove,, Then its me,, So what I'm I doing wrong?

and what is Secondary Air ?

 

[begreen]

Secondary combustion is how the stove burns up the unburnt wood gases that normally would be going up the flue in smoke. Also, a small amount of primary air is always present this contributes to the air wash that keeps the stove glass clean and the boost air at the base of the firebed.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/epa-stove-newbie-secondary-combustion-and-operation-q.93804/

(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/Why-Quadra-Fire/Key-Technologies/Quad-Burn.aspx)

 

[JimCap]

I'm Trying to find where the air is coming in.. Fire needs air to burn,, without air no Burn occurs.. cant see why this things burns like the devil.

 

[kennyp2339]

What type of thermometer are you using? A single wall chimney thermometer will read higher when placed on a stove top, just like a stove top thermometer will read lower when placed on single wall chimney, neither will work correctly on double wall pipe.
How long do your burn last? from load up to just coals with a warm stove top?

 

[Jags]

I'm Trying to find where the air is coming in.. Fire needs air to burn,, without air no Burn occurs.. cant see why this things burns like the devil.

EPA burn tube type stoves cannot be completely closed down to combustion air. Even when the primary air controls are completely shut down, the secondary air (burn tubes in this case) are unregulated. Meaning there is no operator adjustement to them. It is set at the factory. At first blush I would say the stove is operating as designed. At second blush I am guessing this is the wrong stove design for your wants. I would suggest that a cat stove (maybe even one clad in soap stone) is the design you should consider. Low and slow, soft heat is where this design shines (with a nice long burn time as a side effect.)

 

[Wingerr]

I have a Lopi Revere and was trying to figure out the same thing, and I guess that's the answer. I closed both the bypass and the air control to what I mistakenly pictured to be like closing off the opening to the flue and the intake air openings from room air to the interior of the stove.

I was trying to see if it were possible to shut down a fire entirely by closing everything down, but it only took it down to a low rate burn, and by morning it still pretty much burned all the loaded wood except for a few small chunks.

From your description, air tight on the new EPA stoves is not actually air tight in the usual sense, but just a throttle down to reduce air to some smaller level where it is able to continue burning.

I wonder if that means the installation if a wood insert is allowing an ongoing influx of cold air down the chimney when the stove is not in use, since it's not actually sealed any longer, as it used to be with the fireplace damper I had. I'd like to find out where the room air is drawn in, and how the air control affects the flow.

 

[Jags]

Winger - It sounds like you are getting the full picture. Even the primary on most stoves at its lowest settings does not close the intake completely (by design).

 

[dBrad]

I have a Lopi Revere and was trying to figure out the same thing, and I guess that's the answer. I closed both the bypass and the air control to what I mistakenly pictured to be like closing off the opening to the flue and the intake air openings from room air to the interior of the stove.

I was trying to see if it were possible to shut down a fire entirely by closing everything down, but it only took it down to a low rate burn, and by morning it still pretty much burned all the loaded wood except for a few small chunks.

From your description, air tight on the new EPA stoves is not actually air tight in the usual sense, but just a throttle down to reduce air to some smaller level where it is able to continue burning.

I wonder if that means the installation if a wood insert is allowing an ongoing influx of cold air down the chimney when the stove is not in use, since it's not actually sealed any longer, as it used to be with the fireplace damper I had. I'd like to find out where the room air is drawn in, and how the air control affects the flow.

That's a great point. We just installed a Quad 7100 and now I'm wondering the same thing - how do I keep cold air out of my house/stove when it's not running?

 

[Wingerr]

I suppose the amount of air infiltration is low enough that the amount of heat produced during the times it's in operation will offset any losses. I'll just have to use it more to keep on the positive side-

 

[JimCap]

Secondary combustion is how the stove burns up the unburnt wood gases that normally would be going up the flue in smoke. Also, a small amount of primary air is always present this contributes to the air wash that keeps the stove glass clean and the boost air at the base of the firebed.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/epa-stove-newbie-secondary-combustion-and-operation-q.93804/

(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/Why-Quadra-Fire/Key-Technologies/Quad-Burn.aspx)

I don't know where the primary air is getting in at.. I have Every opening covered or plugged.

 

[JimCap]

Ok, I've learned a few things about this stove in that last couple of days.. First I was using a single wall thermometer on the stove top. As someone advised it will read incorrectly I tested it against two other thermometers.. One for a griddle top (restaurant griddle) and the other an IR laser pointer thermometer. they all read within 25 deg's of one another. So for me I'm calling them close enough. One of the other things I learned, is don't load the stove up... This is a pain in the butt because now I have to attended to the wood stove every 1-4 hours depending on the size of the single piece of wood I put in there... (At night, at Bed Time it's different and I will explain further on) It seems for me to limit the run away feature of this stove. I have to limit its fuel supply not its air supply. So I place one maybe two smaller logs in and if the house has chilled I will place 3 in.. At night when I go to bed, I try to find the nastiest piece of wood I can find that I did not spilt due to knots or something else that would have made it difficult to split and throw that single piece in there. This is not a small piece,,,btw... and it will last all night 6 - 9 hours. and I will have coals in the AM. What I don't like about this stove is there is no reason to have a 2.0 CF fire box as it just wastes wood and there is no control over the stove if you were to use it... I just don't get what Quad was thinking.. This is a good looking stove, but function Sucks! for a person that wants to have a occasional fire it may work... but for someone that wants to heat there home, it SUCKS! way to big of temp swing and when it does that it is just gobbling up the wood, melts candles and chocolate that are out. I do not really care for this stove..

Oh now that I thermometer that goes over 700 degs... If I fill like wasting wood I will take a reading and post it..