QuadraFire Explorer II versus Jotul Castine F400

[CreosoteCowboy]

In my ongoing saga of getting a wood stove installed...

I thought I had settled on the Castine, but an installer I'd like to work with is a Quadrafire dealer and so is pushing QuadraFire.

How does the Explorer II stack up against the Castine?

 

[begreen]

The Quad Explorer is a different animal in some ways. It's a steel stove with a cast iron jacket, more like the Jotul F45. The firebox is larger than the F400 and it has andirons to help keep logs from rolling up against the glass.

 

[timfromohio]

Hey Creosote Cowboy,

I went through a somewhat similar decision process a few years ago when installing a new stove in our current home - for me it was the Quad Explorer 2 vs. the Jotul F55. In my case, I needed a rear-vent stove. Begreen is spot on in that the F400 is solely cast iron construction - comparing the Explorer 2 to either the F45 or F55 is more apples to apples in terms of how the stove will behave from a burning/heating standpoint as both feature plate steel fireboxes with cast iron bodies around that. I wound up going with the Explorer 2 as my wife wanted an enameled finish which was/is not an option with the F55. Overall, I feel that the Explorer 2 is a fine stove. Jotul also makes a great stove, so I don't think you'd go wrong either way. Comes down to preferences. One of my preferences is for North-South loading - the Quad (and the Castine) don't lend themselves to that; in both cases the firebox is shallow and wide. The F55 on the other hand looks as though it would accommodate more of a N-S loading configuration. You may not care. The Quad also has a "startup air flow" feature that I don't think makes a hill of beans difference in startup. I figured this was due to my less than ideal venting setup, but I have a good friend from church who also got a Quad Explorer 2 and he can't tell much of a difference with this feature either. We just ignore it. So, if your dealer/installer tries to sell you on this you have 2 data points that say its nothing revolutionary. On the flip side, the Quad looks great with the enameled finish and when secondary combustion is going it does look awesome. I believe their slogan is something like "nothing burns like a Quad" and there is some merit to that. Looks different than the two other secondary combustion stoves I've run (a Pacific Energy and a Napoleon).

Not sure if this is helpful. If I were you I'd probably think about how a 100% cast iron stove would behave compared to the hybrid steel firebox/cast exterior stove in the particular setup and make that a strong factor in my decision. I suppose looks are also important - our stove is in the middle of the big open living area/kitchen/dining room so my wife wanted something that looked good since you look at it all year. I thought that the F55 looked good too, but that's me.

Best of luck in your decision and let us know what stove you go with. Again, both companies make great stoves and I personally don't think you'd go wrong with either from a quality standpoint.

Tim(fromOhio)

 

[begreen]

Good info Tim. The F400 is definitely more radiant than the Quadrafire Explorer. It needs greater clearances because of this. Cast iron jacketed stoves put out a softer heat. The jacket acts like a heat sink, absorbing heat when the stove is hot and then slowly releasing it as the fire cools down. I replaced the F400 with a cast iron jacketed stove and this effect was immediately apparent. It makes a big difference in the eveness of room temps between refuelings and we've grown to really like this feature.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Good info Tim. The F400 is definitely more radiant than the Quadrafire Explorer. It needs greater clearances because of this. Cast iron jacketed stoves put out a softer heat. The jacket acts like a heat sink, absorbing heat when the stove is hot and then slowly releasing it as the fire cools down. I replaced the F400 with a cast iron jacketed stove and this effect was immediately apparent. It makes a big difference in the eveness of room temps between refuelings and we've grown to really like this feature.

This info is hugely helpful, @timinohio and @begreen. Thank you so much.

Do either of you happen to know off the top of your heads if the Explorer needs a hearth with a thermal value, or just spark protection?

 

[begreen]

It needs type 1 ember protection.

FLOOR PROTECTION: Floor protector must be non-combustible material, extending beneath heater and to the front, sides and rear as indicated. The floor must be non-combustible or otherwise adequately protected from radiant heat given off by the unit and from sparks and falling embers. A layer of thin brick or ceramic tile over a combustible floor is not sufficient.

It is necessary to install a floor protector of a minimum of 3/8 inch (9.5mm) thick metal clad millboard or equivalent a minimum of 16 inches (406mm) in front of glass and 8 inches (203mm) to both sides of the fuel loading door. Open the door and measure 8 inches (203mm) from the side edge of the opening in the face of the appliance.

 

[timfromohio]

Yup, watch the requirement. No r-value is called out but it does state "metal clad". Many pre-made hearth pads that install guy wants to sell you are overpriced and do not include this feature. I made my hearth pad using multiple layers of durock with sheet metal in between, tile on top. I'll try to attach a pic.

 

[timfromohio]

OK, pic successfully attached - didn't know if it would be too large; first one I conveniently found. As you can see, the hearth is pleasantly warm, but not hot. Dogs love it.

 

[timfromohio]

Regarding the radiant heat - while the stove is our primary heat source in the winter (estimate 70%?) I do not get up in the night to feed it. I load it before bed, get it cooking, damper down, go to bed. I have one of those small thermoelectric fans on the top of the stove. There are mornings when it is still rotating slowly and the stove is still nice and warm. So, even after the fire has died down the cast iron is continuing to radiate the heat nicely. I suspect a fully cast stove would be cooler at this point - would have given up the heat by then.

 

[begreen]

Yup, watch the requirement. No r-value is called out but it does state "metal clad". Many pre-made hearth pads that install guy wants to sell you are overpriced and do not include this feature. I made my hearth pad using multiple layers of durock with sheet metal in between, tile on top. I'll try to attach a pic.

Yes, they use a somewhat archaic hearth requirement description without actual spec. Quadrafire has decent docs in general but this is a weak point. I think the metal layer is mostly to create a barrier that prevents embers from falling between the cracks of dry fit tiles or bricks. Tile bonded and grouted to cement board will do the same, but no harm in putting a layer of metal underneath, in between or on top.

 

[timfromohio]

If I recall correctly I did 3/4" plywood, then durock, then sheet metal, then durock, then tile. I also used a felt material underneath the plywood so that the hearth floats and won't mare the underlying hardwood. As much as my wife likes our house, its not the "forever" house for me. Behind the Quad used to be a zero clearance gas log fireplace. In the event of a move, I'll take out the quad, remove the hearth pad, and reinstall the gas logs.

I figured the sheet metal was in case a big ember fell out unnoticed and burned through the metal would dissipate the point source of heat. In any case, my advice is to follow the manufacturers guidelines to the "t" for liability purposes.

 

[begreen]

You did a fine job. Note, that the instructions say: or equivalent.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Yes, they use a somewhat archaic hearth requirement description without actual spec. Quadrafire has decent docs in general but this is a weak point. I think the metal layer is mostly to create a barrier that prevents embers from falling between the cracks of dry fit tiles or bricks. Tile bonded and grouted to cement board will do the same, but no harm in putting a layer of metal underneath, in between or on top.

Do you know if this is a different requirement than Jotul uses for the Castine?

With the Castine, they say R1 and the local stove shop says that's met with glass.

 

[begreen]

A sheet of 1/2" tempered glass has very little insulative values and definitely not R=1. That is ember protection only. However, I just spoke with Quadrafire support and they say the ember-protection only is fine for the Explorer II. So if you want to have a glass hearth it should be ok.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Wow, thanks for checking. I'm not sold on a glass hearth necessarly, but it's good to know that it's possible.

 

[begreen]

I want them to clarify the manual. Unclear documentation helps no one and in this case can cause overkill if one has a by-the-book inspector. There's no harm in a hearth that exceeds minimum requirements and often it's an advantage, but for some folks it can present a challenge.

What would you like to do for the hearth?

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

I want them to clarify the manual. Unclear documentation helps no one and in this case can cause overkill if one has a by-the-book inspector. There's no harm in a hearth that exceeds minimum requirements and often it's an advantage, but for some folks it can present a challenge.

What would you like to do for the hearth?

It's in a high traffic area of the house, so I'm hoping to do something low profile to minimize people stubbing their toes on it. Glass or steel plate seem like the two primary options I've run across that don't stick up much. It's going over a hardwood floor, and I'm thinking the glass would look good clean, but also might be a pain to keep clean.

 

[begreen]

1/2" glass can be a toe-stubber. A thicker pad with a tapered or stepped edge that's wider at the base might be more forgiving.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Thanks for the advice. Is there anyone out there that makes a hearth pad where the extension out in front of the stove is removable so that I could pull it off in the warm months?

 

[begreen]

Yoder makes a modular system that might be able to do this. You might also look at their basic ember defender.
(broken link removed to https://www.hearthclassics.com/ember-defender-sizes)

 

[timfromohio]

Wow, my hearth is way over-built then! For some reason I also looked at a glass hearth pad - maybe the F55 required "ember only" protection? As you can see from the pic I also have the hearth over a hardwood floor. One concern I had with the glass was that due to the inherent unevenness with hardwood I thought I might get small ash/dust/wood chip particles under the glass and that, in time, it would look like a mess with this stuff inevitably infiltrating under the hearth. I was also concerned about somebody dropping the ash rake, a log, etc. on the glass. With tile I have a chance to spot repair a chip. Glass, not so much. So are you leaning towards the Castine?

Begreen - seems that a lot of copy/paste must happen with stove companies. Quad appears to have an incorrect or outdated requirement in the manual. I remember when I put my Napoleon 1150p in our old home I called them multiple times trying to verify an r-value and got some generic, excessive answer. You might recall that the 1150p has under-stove wood storage area. If the high r-value requirement was driven by heat given off the bottom of the stove (it didn't get that hot) why design it to have wood storage between said high r-value hearth and stove box?

 

[begreen]

Agreed, it looks like the doc writer just copied an old spec. I communicated to Quadrafire that the wording for this section of the manual was outdated, unspecific and misleading. The good news Tim is that your hearth is well made and if at some future point you desired to change the stove to one needing better protection, you may already have it.