Question about stove and venting problems

[krista72]

Hello,
I hope you guys can help me here for I am about to spit fire here.

We have this stove. Could someone help me ID it.

With this stove we are having problems with the venting. We can not run the stove with the doors open. For a lot of smoke will come in the house. I am not sure if it is the stove or the why we have it vented. Here is some pics on the venting.

Measurement on this one is the from top of stove to 90 degree elbow is 41 inches tall. Then from 90 degree elbow to wall is 24 inches.

This is the chimney coming from back of living wall through the roof. Measurements are from back of wall to 'T' is 24 inches then the pipe goes through roof along house. The top is even with the peak of the top of roof line. For we have a low pitch roof. I know it is past the guidelines of two feet from peak of rood.
Then you also have to figure maybe a foot that is in-between the walls.

I am just having a hard time to get this to vent. When ever we load the stove smoke and dust (that is what I call it) goes all over the place.

Any help or ideas would be great. For I would enjoy to look at the flames.

Thank you,
Krista

 

[Corey]

I can't see pics right now due to firewall, but you mention smoke spilling with the doors open. Ideally, you don't want to run the stove with the doors open...that just makes it a big steel fireplace and that's pretty inefficient. From the description, it sounds like you have 2 90 degree bends in a flue that is probably not much over 13-14 feet tall overall? Something like that is going to have pretty poor draft just by it's nature and higher outside temps don't help either. I have a 13' straight run and it's pretty marginal if the temp is ~40ºF or higher.

I'm sure others will be along shortly to help further diagnose.

 

[DAKSY]

That baby is a Ben Franklin Stove, which is pretty much a cast iron fireplace...
Never gonna be too efficient even if you DSO get it to draft correctly...
Your connector pipe looks like 8"...
Is your Class A chimney ALSO 8" or is it reduced to 6"?
13-14 ' with that big of a horizontal run & two 90s in the system probably is 6' too short...
Most units don't draft well below 15' with straight vertical runs...

 

[rumme]

[quote author="cozy heat" date="1234233337"] From the description, it sounds like you have 2 90 degree bends in a flue that is probably not much over 13-14 feet tall overall? Something like that is going to have pretty poor draft just by it's nature ......quote]


I have to disgaree with this opinon based on my own personal setup, and others I know...

I have two 90 degree bends...and only a 16 ft single wall steel chimney..that is also uninsulated...my draft is GREAT....

 

[humpin iron]

That stove was 200 bucks brand new in the 70's, was junk then is still junk today. Your pipe is restricted by that POS heat reclaimer in the smoke pipe. Rip it all out and start from scratch. Also that stove should be 36 inches from anything combustible, unless that tile is on cinder block it's a time bomb

 

[humpin iron]

Forgot one......DAKSY is correct the pipe was reduced at the stove.....another no-no. Start from scratch

 

[krista72]

That baby is a Ben Franklin Stove, which is pretty much a cast iron fireplace...
Never gonna be too efficient even if you DSO get it to draft correctly...
Your connector pipe looks like 8"...
Is your Class A chimney ALSO 8" or is it reduced to 6"?
13-14 ' with that big of a horizontal run & two 90s in the system probably is 6' too short...
Most units don't draft well below 15' with straight vertical runs...

I was told at one time this was a repalic of a Ben Franklin. But there is no Sears on the back or anything for my dad has one of those. So would this stove be one of the orginal Ben Fraklin's? I have also read that there were two Ben Franklin's made. The first one was not the best for there were flaws with drafting issues. So another Ben Franklin was made which did much better.

The way the flue is ran is the only way I can get it to go outside for the over hang and my husband not wanting to go through the over hang.

So does this mean I will never be able to enjoy the stove with the doors open?
What is the difference between a fireplace and a cast iron stove?? Don't mean to be dumb here.

Krista

 

[krista72]

That stove was 200 bucks brand new in the 70's, was junk then is still junk today. Your pipe is restricted by that POS heat reclaimer in the smoke pipe. Rip it all out and start from scratch. Also that stove should be 36 inches from anything combustible, unless that tile is on cinder block it's a time bomb

What do you mean a time boomb?

And the pipe is reduce from an eight inch to a six inch.

 

[fossil]

If you're getting smoke into the room from the stove, then your system has insufficient draft. The 8" to 6" reduction has something to do with it, as do the 2 90-degree bends, as (maybe) the minimal chimney height. Certainly whatever that heat reclaimer thing is that's installed has something to do with it, as well. When was the last time the whole system was thoroughly cleaned and inspected? What sort of chimney cap/spark arrestor screen is installed at the top of the chimney? Is it clear of soot/creosote buildup? The stove looks like is says "Portland Stove Foundry Co. Portland ME." on it, have you searched that name? Rick

 

[krista72]

Behind the brick is board that is fire proof or what ever you call that board. then the brick on it.

 

[fossil]

Behind the brick is board that is fire proof or what ever you call that board. then the brick on it.

Unfortunately, that doesn't constitute a properly configured heat shield. There would need to be a 1" gap for airflow between the shield and the wall behind it in order to safely reduce the clearances from the stove to the combustible materials in the walls. Your pictures don't show what sort of hearth protection is beneath the stove...that's very important as well, as is how far that hearth protection extends out in front of the stove. Overall, it's a pretty shaky installation of an old stove, from a fire safety standpoint. It can all be made right, if you want to keep this stove, but it's gonna mean a lot of learning and a lot of work. Rick

 

[krista72]

I would like to keep the stove. I know the chimney that extends from the roof is like thirteen feet tall. then what ever is inside the house.

My husband just changed the fireplace placement this weekend. For this stove also vents out the back so he tried that and it still did not pull much draft. And he put it back to top venting and set the stove closer to the wall. I have not burned anyting in it today for I am going to wait for him to get home and help me move it back out.

Krista

 

[krista72]

I can put my hand on the bricks at anytime when it was set out 36"

Like I said we need to move it back out

 

[Corey]

Ahhh, yes, I can see the photos now. Looks like you're coming out of the stove at maybe 3x12" rectangle, then that is reduced to an 8" diameter, then reduced to 6" diameter, then a magic heat reclaimer, then a 90º, then a 90º T. Every step in the chain is cutting the 'effective' height of the flue. You might try removing the heat reclaimer as that is a pretty big restriction and should also be fairly easy to remove. Not much you can really do about the rest.

If that doesn't work and you're really intent on seeing the fire, it might help to run 8" pipe all the way up. Though the best solution would be to pick up an actual stove which can use the 6" flue and have a glass front. You would get a substantial amount of heat for your wood investment and a nice cozy fire, without the danger of embers popping out on the pretty wood floor, too.

 

[fossil]

I have to believe (hope) that the "pretty wood floor" pic was a pre-purchase/installation photo. We haven't seen a pic of the hearth this stove sits on now. Rick

 

[spadafore]

Yes an old franklin fireplace. I used one before I found this site. Served it's purpose but worring about it being safe kind of ruined it. If you could ever fix the draft I wouldn't advise to burn with the doors open. With that old thing you need the heat to go up the pipe to reduce creosote build up. I went through way to much wood with mine. My Lopi goes through about one third of what the franklin did and my back thanks me. We all had to start somewhere.

 

[begreen]

I would like to keep the stove. I know the chimney that extends from the roof is like thirteen feet tall. then what ever is inside the house.

My husband just changed the fireplace placement this weekend. For this stove also vents out the back so he tried that and it still did not pull much draft. And he put it back to top venting and set the stove closer to the wall. I have not burned anyting in it today for I am going to wait for him to get home and help me move it back out.

Krista

This is a whole set of problems, not just one. Regarding the smoking, the pipe should not have been downsized. That's against code. The Magic Heat reclaimer is not helping the situation, nor is the 13' high flue. The reclaimer is cooling down the flue gases, not something you want to do with a short chimney. Please tell us that you have a CO detector in this room. CO levels should be watched here.

As other's mentioned, clearances represent a serious safety hazard, address them right away. The old franklin fireplace may have some appeal, but this is really not much of a heater. There are better, cleaner, and safer ways to heat and still have a great view of the fire. Most newer stoves use a 6" flue and have closer clearances to combustibles. All of these factors would benefit this installation.

 

[savageactor7]

krista72 if you need the stove to work for the rest of the winter try it without the magic heat appliance.

Those tubes running threw the flue while clean may be just enough obstruction to stop a decent draft mostly cause you have 2 - 90* bends and that's a big handicap right there...

...it may be an optical illusion but it looks to me the flue is going downhill where it turns 90* to head out threw the wall. That's kind of a showstopper right there. It would improve draft if you could angle it slightly going up.

I don't think the reducer at the stove will affect it that much.

 

[krista72]

I have talked to my husband about all your replies. And thank you for them.

We are going to get a differnt stove.

My question is this....
I do nt want something that look moderen for my house is a very old house and would like to keep the same feel inside.

Yes I do like the look of the Franklin. Is there something that looks like that that is good?

I have seen a stove made by Vogelzang Model no. FS260E

How is that stove?

For we use this stove to heat whole house and it does work. We have 2,100 sq ft two story home.

Any advice would be great.

Krista

 

[fossil]

The stove you mentioned - Vogelzang FS260E - is no better than the one you've got. Rick

 

[Peter B.]

krista72:

Without meaning offense (or additional expense or hardship), you need to do some more homework before finalizing your stove decision or installation plans. There's plenty of solid information to be found about wood burning, stove types and chimney basics here at Hearth.com... and elsewhere on the web.

Maybe putting off your wood burning ambitions til next year, when you will have had time to learn more about the subject at hand would be best.

Beats a cold, smoky house and the companion frustration.

Peter B.

-----

 

[Wet1]

I have to agree with fossil, Volgelzang is pretty much junk as well. Make sure you remove that "Magic Heat" reclaimer and install a proper hearth under the stove when you reconfigure everything. Any new(er) stove should have clearances provided which you'll want to maintain. If you're looking at used stoves, look for a "EPA" rated stove... it will give off more heat while using less wood. Any new stove will have this rating.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Hi Krista,

If you were to ask me how you could create a woodstove installation that was virtually guaranteed to back-smoke into the house, here's what I'd advise you to do:

1) Start with a Franklin-style stove. These are notorious back-smokers, due to the tall opening and slanted backwall which causes the smoke to flow forward towards the door opening on its way out. The only model I know of with a worse reputation for back-smoking was Ben Franklin's original design, which had the exhaust opening down near the floor and reportedly didn't draft at all.

2) Now, take this stove, which needs every bit of 50 sq.in. vent area (8" round), and vent it into a chimney with only 28 sq.in. vent area (6" round).

3) Don't run the chimney straight up from the stove. A tee chimney will enable you to incorporate a couple of elbows, which will help interfere with the draft.

4) Extend this undersized chimney only to the bare minimum height specified by code to ensure fire safety. Try to stay short of the minimum height most stove companies require to ensure proper draft.

5) Expose this short, undersized chimney to outdoor temperatures for its entire length, to cool the exhaust as much as possible.

6) Connect to this short, cold, undersized chimney with as long a horizontal length as you can muster.

7) Add a stovepipe heat extractor just above the stove. By cooling the exhaust from the get-go, you'll ensure that it will be as cold and slow-flowing as possible by the time it gets through the elbows and horizontal length and enters your short, cold, undersized tee chimney.

Now, I'll admit I've seen a few installations over the years that incorporated two and even three of the above factors and didn't backflow. Nonetheless, I've learned that, when planning an installation, the safest bet is to eliminate as many as possible. As you've already learned, including all seven virtually guarantees a gold-medal winner in the Backflow Olympics.

 

[humpin iron]

Krista
Sorry we are all being so harsh on your install, it's just been a long winter.