Question about "zero clearance fireplace insert"

[troy-pit]

I am trying to get information about installing a new wood burning fireplace insert. The existing insert was open wood burning. I gutted out the masonry and I am left with a metal frame which seems difficult to remove but I am sure it is possible.

• I am wondering what is going on and my options for a new fireplace insert.
• The existing metal frame is raised and would limit the size of the new insert.
• I also have a 7" pipe going up the chimney and do not know if I need a new pipe or can use the existing pipe.
• Can I just gut out the existing metal frame and start from scratch?
• I am sure there are many codes that limit my options???

Attached are some pictures which should help explain my dilema.

 

[begreen]

An insert can not be put in a modified Zero Clearance fireplace. That includes the refractory brick. This condition will be found in any insert manual:

Alteration of the fireplace in any manner is not permitted with the following exceptions;
a. external trim pieces which do not affect the operation of the fireplace may be removed providing they can be stored on or within the fi replace for re-assembly if the insert is removed.
b. the chimney damper may be removed to install the chimney liner.

 

[troy-pit]

Is there any hope for getting a wood burning fireplace insert installed???

 

[Grisu]

A safe option? Not really anymore. It looks like there is even a hole in the firebox; maybe from a gas log set?

What you still could do is installing a rear-vented stove on the hearth in front of the fireplace. The depth of your hearth and the height of the fireplace opening measured from the hearth will determine whether that is possible. Another option is gutting the whole fireplace including pipe and chase to install a freestanding stove on a new hearth.

 

[bholler]

What you still could do is installing a rear-vented stove on the hearth in front of the fireplace. The depth of your hearth and the height of the fireplace opening measured from the hearth will determine whether that is possible.

I dont know after tearing everything out of the box i am not sure that is even a great idea. I think the whole thing needs to come out and either make an alcove of put in of replace the system with a new zc.

 

[Grisu]

I dont know after tearing everything out of the box i am not sure that is even a great idea.

With double wall pipe don't you need just 6" clearance to combustibles? And in this case you would even have protective shielding around it.

 

[bholler]

With double wall pipe don't you need just 6" clearance to combustibles? And in this case you would even have protective shielding around it.

yeah i guess it just scares me to have that old stripped unit used for anything

 

[troy-pit]

Thanks for all the help and replies. The distance from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening is only 25". The distance from the hearth to the ceiling would be 12'. Seems like I could expand the hearth and install a freestanding blaze king and just install a pipe up through the ceiling. Or would it make more sense to just install the pipe from a blaze king rear vented stove and make a 90 angle up the existing 7" hole up the chimney. I am sure a rear vented stove does not work as well as one with a pipe going straight up.

 

[bholler]

Or would it make more sense to just install the pipe from a blaze king rear vented stove and make a 90 angle up the existing 7" hole up the chimney.

Well you would need a liner in the old chimney anyway. Straight up will work better but cost more. But if you do that you could eventually tear out the old prefab which is a benifit

 

[Grisu]

The distance from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening is only 25".

That will make the option of a rear-vented stove really tough. The Hearthstone Castleton may be pretty much your only option. I don't know of any BK stove that can be rear-vented. For those you would need to rip out the fireplace and install them as a freestander.

I am sure a rear vented stove does not work as well as one with a pipe going straight up.

If your pipe is tall enough that should not be a problem. A stove that can be rear-vented has been designed and tested for it.

 

[JA600L]

Were you hoping to install a Blaze King insert?

 

[troy-pit]

Ya guess I was hoping for the blaze king insert Princess.

If I can not do that then the freestanding one seems like my next best option. I can extend the hearth and go from their I guess.
Is it really difficult to install the pipe up through the roof.
I live in a ranch with a 12 foot ceiling.

I seen the Alaskan bush people do this on discovery channel. Of course probably got no codes to worry about.

 

[Grisu]

If you extend the hearth to put a freestanding top-vent stove there you would need to run a second pipe all the way up through the roof right in front of the fireplace. It may look a bit awkward. I would really think hard about ripping the whole fireplace+ chase out and do a stove in an alcove install. I think BK stoves usually have good clearances in an alcove, so that should mesh well with your preferred stove choice. In the long run you should be much happier with that solution.

 

[begreen]

One option would be to replace the current ZC with a modern EPA unit that fits in the same space. It looks like a 36" model would fit well there. The chimney would still need to be replaced, but the general room layout could stay the same.

If you choose to do an alcove installation pay very close attention to the stove alcove requirements and clearances. What is the width of the chase outside?

 

[bholler]

I seen the Alaskan bush people do this on discovery channel. Of course probably got no codes to worry about.

they have codes in Alaska to but no it really is not hard

 

[troy-pit]

Wow ripping the whole thing out, creating an alcove and putting the stove in this alcove seems like a lot of work. Plus I may need housing inspection for this work. I guess I would gain a little space in my room. Would I be able to use the same chimney if I build a big enough alcove with the acceptable clearances around the stove or would I still have to run a tube up to the ceiling only closer to the wall with an alcove.

 

[bholler]

Wow ripping the whole thing out, creating an alcove and putting the stove in this alcove seems like a lot of work. Plus I may need housing inspection for this work. I guess I would gain a little space in my room. Would I be able to use the same chimney if I build a big enough alcove with the acceptable clearances around the stove or would I still have to run a tube up to the ceiling only closer to the wall with an alcove.

You would need new chimney pipe the existing chimney is not rated for use with a wood stove

 

[Grisu]

Wow ripping the whole thing out, creating an alcove and putting the stove in this alcove seems like a lot of work.

It will certainly take more than a day but several members here have done it. Here is a pic-heavy thread of someone who changed his inefficient prefab fireplace to an EPA-approved ZC unit: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ncy-zc-wood-burning-fireplace-project.114875/
I think it is easy to envision how that would work in opening up the wall and creating an alcove to put a stove there.

The other option you have is placing a stove somewhere else in the house with its own dedicated chimney.

Do you actually have any dry wood yet? If not I would think about getting that now stacked so it can dry for a year and wait until next summer to change your fireplace.

 

[troy-pit]

Thanks a lot. The alcove idea is starting to make a lot of sense. As I understand it I can still use the existing chimney but just install new pipe up the chimney. I have a really open floor plan with the living room and kitchen being about 550 sq/ft and whole house about 1300 sq/ft. Is a medium blaze king a good size???. Wondering if since the free standing stoves do not have blowers will I loose a lot of heat in the alcove and not get good circulation of the heat throughout the house. Wondering how high up I am going to have to rip out the existing fireplace to have clearance for the new pipe per code. Well first thing is I will have to rip out the old fireplace and see how much room I got back there.

 

[JA600L]

You can get blowers for blaze king stoves.

 

[bholler]

As I understand it I can still use the existing chimney but just install new pipe up the chimney.

no the existing chimney is supported by the fireplace when the fireplace comes out so does that chimney then you install a new prefab chimney

 

[Grisu]

Wondering if since the free standing stoves do not have blowers will I loose a lot of heat in the alcove and not get good circulation of the heat throughout the house.

Many freestanding stoves have optional blowers. When the alcove is properly insulated you won't have any more heat loss there than at any other spot.

As I understand it I can still use the existing chimney but just install new pipe up the chimney.

Just to get the terminology right that you shop for the correct product: What you have is a wooden chase. In that one you will need to install a class A chimney after you pass the ceiling above the stove.

A BK stove of the 30 series will work for you as you can turn down the thermostat to get low, steady heat. With that small of a space you will probably enjoy some long burn times with the dry wood. Another option should the BK stoves plus clearances be too large would be the Jotul F45. With proper ventilated wall shields it only needs 6" side clearances and therefore fits in pretty small alcoves. Its firebox size should be sufficient to heat your space and give you overnight burns.

 

[troy-pit]

Ok I am kind of getting it. I was kind of set on one of the catalytic wood stoves.

Approximately how high up will the ceiling above the stove have to be.

I guess I will just have to cut out the drywall and bricks up to a certain height and to a certain width from inside my house. Any guess at the approximate height and width I am going to need to cut out

The opening of the existing fireplace is only 33 inches. Probably best to just rip out all the bricks going up the wall and start from scratch. I guess I could use the old bricks to extend the hearth back to the inside of the floor.

I am assuming this needs to get inspected. When does this happen and by whom.

I am a pretty handy person. Is this something I can do myself???

 

[bholler]

Ok I am confused. From the outside picture of my house it seems that the "Chase" goes up the full side of my house and extends up past the roof.
Are you saying that I can run a pipe "chimney" up through the chase but I will need to cut down part of the chase where it extends above my roof.
I am pretty handy person but will I need to hire someone to do this for me. What is the estimated cost.

No not at all you would take the old chimney pipe out of that chase and replace it with a new chimney pipe that is rated to be used with a wood stove

 

[troy-pit]

Ok so I guess if I choose for example the "blaze king sirocco 20" that is 25 inches wide and needs 11 inch clearance on each side then I need a width of at lease 47 inches for the alcove. Also alcove minimum height is 72 inches so guess I need to cut a hole 47 by 72 and make sure that I get 6 inch clearance for the back of the stove. Not too difficult I guess. Better break out the sledgehammer and get rid of all those bricks. I think a large BK would be overkill since the stove will only be about 8 feet away from our living room couch.

P.S. I know nothing about brands of wood stoves but when I see 56 pages of people praising the Blaze King I assume this is the way to go.