Question on VC Vigilant Temperature

[Horvik]

Hello;

I am aware that it is good to run between 400-600 F on the wood burning stoves to burn clean. Now, I have a magnetic stove top thermometer, and the reading ranges from 450 and lower depending on the wood I burn.

My main question is , does this design of thermometer give a true indication on temperature? Or is there a discrepancy in the read?

All the best

 

[fivesap's]

i have an internal probe thermometer about 2.5 ft from the stove in the flue pipe. with the damper closed, reads 400 pretty consistently, with it open it can range from 600-900 (internal flue temps) i have no idea if this is normal or right, just what mine is running.

 

[begreen]

Stove top temp is going to be regulated by the thermostatic air control setting. If 400F is the highest possible with the bypass engaged then something is not right. First suspect is unseasoned wood.

 

[WayTooManyHobbies]

I'm currently working through my first season with a Vigilant. I have a magnetic thermometer and I recently bought an inexpensive IR thermometer from Harbor Freight. For the most part they agree. I don't know if I'd trust either if I needed to know the exact temperature to the nearest degree, but I'd bet that they are close enough for our purposes. Be careful when starting the stove because those magnetic thermometers will not change their reading as fast as the stove can get hot. I regularly see griddle temperatures around 550 and if I'm not careful it can go much higher if I fill the box and run in direct vertical mode. The only time I can't get above 500 is if I'm burning just a few splits.

I have a second thermometer about 18 inches above the stove on the single wall stove pipe. It's good, at least from what I've learned on this site, to keep that out of the "creosote" zone, or above 225 degrees if I recall. Of course when there are only embers on the bottom of the stove the temps will go below 225 but from what I understand you won't be making smoke or creosote at that point.

Good luck with your stove!

 

[Horvik]

Waytoomany;

Thanks for the reply. I think part of the problem is though my oak is seasoned and covered, it has been 100% humidity rainy, and the wood is checked at 20% or a bit higher. I plan on putting some in a heated area overnight to attempt to dry it out. On a few occasions I got it to register 550 F on the magnetic top thermometer, so got to keep trying to see.
Way I see it, with this kind of wet and humidity, I don't see how in the world the wood could be expected to be dry.

Do you concur, and also what additional thoughts have you on this matter?

Thank You

 

[Horvik]

Waytoomany;

I forgot to ask, when you say "vertical Mode", do you mean that the stove damper flue is shut( handle in vertical position) or open (handle in the horizontal postion) ? I ask for clarification as on my VC Vigilant, if the handle is in the vertical position, the stove damper is shut. Some refer to this as secondary burn.

 

[WayTooManyHobbies]

I should have said updraft as the manual calls it. The damper is open. If the firebox is full this can get out of hand pretty quickly. The VC manual says that the entire "magazine" or load of wood doesn't burn all at once because there is limited air available and it's moving horizontally over the bed of coals and therefore being consumed. However, if you run with the damper open and the thermostat set so that the little door on the back of the stove in wide open you should get some pretty high temperatures. Again, a few splits won't get the temp up there, but if you have a bunch of wood in there you should get above 500 degrees. Keep a close eye on things when you run with the damper open! Five minutes is a long time to be away from the stove if it's loaded and the damper is open.

Regarding your damp wood, I think if it's seasoned that the surface moisture you are talking about will burn of in just a few minutes. I think maybe you are not putting enough wood in the box. Try a few splits, let them burn for say 20 minutes or half an hour then load the firebox maybe half way. Leave the damper open and keep an eye on the griddle temp. As the manual suggests, when it gets up to 500 or so, close the damper and see what happens. Even when it's relatively warm, say 50 degrees which means lest draft produced by my chimney, a half loaded firebox will get very hot and I'll have to close the damper.

Speaking of draft, is yours good? When you have a fire going and the damper open, can you also open the griddle without smoke endearing your house? Are you running the 8" chimney the stove requires? I have mine going into brick chimney with a 7" stainless steel insulated liner. I think it works so well because the chimney is about 35' high and runs inside of my house, so it stays nice and warm. I've read here that some go into a 6" chimney but I'd uncomfortable with that amount of reduction. What is your chimney setup?

Again, I don't have a lot of experience, but I've noticed the doors can get extremely hot. I've researched this here on hearth.com and found a lot of discussion. My stove is missing the ash fettle (I have one on order and should have it in about a month) and I don't know if that's why I'm seeing such high temps on the doors, but sometimes they get up to 900 degrees, and even higher if I'm not careful. Thats with a griddle temp of about 600. I'm working through this issue but just keep an eye on your stove until you get a feel for how it behaves. The cheap Harbor Freight IR thermometer is good for all of the learning. It was $20, on sale the day after Thanksgiving.

I see a lot of people on this site that suggest new stoves for various reasons, but I think if you are willing to learn how to operate your Vigilant it will serve you well. I have a friend who has been running his VC Defiant for 30 years, 24/7 during the heating season. He also run's his daughter's VC Vigilant 24/7 during the heating season. For me, the issue of getting overnight or "while I'm at work" burns is a challenge. I worry about the amount of creosote these older stoves make, especially when running cool to extend burn times. I did some research here and people seem to like the Soot Eater chimney cleaning system. I think more frequent chimney cleaning will make me sleep better, so I figured I'd better do it myself, from the bottom up!

Lastly, I'd suggest searching this site for every thread you can find regarding the Vigilant. I've learned a lot in a short time due to this forum.

 

[Horvik]

Waytoomany;

Good Morning!

To answer your writings, I have a straight up stack of triple wall 8" stainless steel, including 8" double wall DVL from the stove to the ceiling. Draft looks to me to be real good, as when you have the wood burning it is sucked up right away .When I open the top griddle no smoke comes out.

I quite agree with having to learn how to work with the Vigilant, but I surely think it is one handsome and great quality stove! Mine also is stamped as a wood/coal burning model and love it to death. I replaced all of the gaskets a couple of weeks ago and and working out these details as time goes on with the help of you and this forum.

I brought in three night worth on wood into a heated area to see if this will help with a hot fire. Last evening it read 20% on the meter, so am trying to see if drier will help getting a hot fire going. I did have a hot fire a couple times, 550 F griddle, do know that it can be done. Maybe I am not starting it right, going to try some of your suggestions.

Do you store your firewood outside? And how do you cover it?

Thanks

 

[Horvik]

Waytoomany;

Also, I notice that in my attempts to get a fire going, I have to turn and poke the fire a lot to achieve this. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks

 

[TooManyHobbies]

Hi,

Sounds like your chimney is good and that you should have sufficient draft. Here is a thread on starting top down fires that starts off with a video.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-to-start-a-fire-video-top-down-method-and-other-tips.92574/

I learned about making knots with newspaper from this video and have been using knotted newspaper regularly. I've been building my fires the old school, bottom up way. I'm sure everyone has their own technique, but what I find is that if I don't use the proper amount and size kindling I'll have to stay by the stove and fuss with it. On the other hand if I either gather some nice dry, thin twigs or take some of my fire wood and split it into very thin pieces then everything goes well. You need enough paper to light the twigs or super thin splits. Then enough twigs / thin splits to ignite slightly larger splits. Then enough slightly larger splits to ignite some bigger splits. You get the idea. I start with newspaper, then twigs / very thin splits and maybe two larger splits on top of that. Also, when adding the the larger splits, don't add just one. It seems to me that two pieces of wood close together will light much easier than a lone split as the flames from the kindling work their way up between the pieces.

As other's have suggested, when you suspect wood issues you can test your setup by getting some kiln dried or properly seasoned wood from the big box stores or local continence store. If your problems go away, they you know you are fighting your wood. My wood is stacked outside with just a tarp over the top. The ends will get wet when it rains, but after a day or two of dry weather they are fine. Seasoning of wood happens deep inside and won't be un-seasoned by rain. Should be fine after a few days of drying. I put a few days of wood on my outdoor covered porch so it can dry out from any rain or snow that got to it when it was on the pile. Plus I can step out of my door on to my porch and get wood in my pajamas if necessary.

 

[Kenster]

Definitely try the "top down" method of fire building. It's pretty much fool proof. A little surface moisture is not going to affect the wood much if it is well seasoned. If you have 20% or so, you're in pretty good shape. I don't keep most of my wood covered at all but I cover what I'll be needing over the next few weeks and I like to keep about three days worth up on our covered front porch. Any surface moisture is long gone by the time it comes into the house. Look at the "Woodshed" forum for tips on storing your wood and covering it. Most will advise against completely tarping it. Top cover only is the way to go.

When I light the fire it's always top down, with the stove in vertical burn (damper open, handle pointing toward the door) HINT, to open the either door the handle should always be pointed TOWARD the door. That ensures the updraft will keep the smoke in the stove and not in the living room. Once I get the fire going, I close the door but leave it open about an inch. This creates a great draft and will soon get the fire roaring. DO NOT leave the room with the door open or you could find yourself with a runaway fire.

Don't be afraid to let the griddle temp get up to even 700 or so. You don't really need to keep it there but it won't hurt anything. I rarely will switch to horizontal until I get at least 600 or better.

Welcome to the forum. It's a real education. I love my Vig, too.

 

[TooManyHobbies]

Hi Kenster,

I'd like to know what the temperature on your left front door is once their is a nice coal bed going on the bottom of the stove, say two hours into the burn. I've seen 800 when the griddle is at 600, though most of the time the doors are only about 100 degrees higher than the griddle. As mentioned above, I'm missing the ash fettle which I hope will provide some insulation and protect the door. I've searched for and read everything I can about the Vigilant, but I haven't found any numbers on door temps. As I learn about this stove I measure the temp in three places, griddle, doors and stove pipe. I've had what I consider good temps on the griddle and stovepipe and 900 degrees at the doors. That makes me unhappy as I know at that temperature I'm changing the composition of the cast iron, and not for the better. Maybe you could take some readings for me and give me griddle temp / left door temp.

Thanks.

 

[Kenster]

Hobbies, I've actually never measured the temp at the doors. It's never occurred to me to do so. We have glass doors so that may make a difference. Also, not really a place to stick a magnetic thermometer and I have no IR. I also don't think I've ever read of anyone having that issue. Yes, the cast iron can definitely be overfired but I'm not sure what it would take to do that.
I never thought about the doors being hotter since the heat is roaring up against the griddle. Maybe someone else can help with this question.

 

[nomadicSue]

I never thought about the doors being hotter since the heat is roaring up against the griddle. Maybe someone else can help with this question.

I've noticed the doors get pretty hot relative to the top, which I figure is because they are closer to the hot coals producing the heat. I also think it says something in the manual about the sides emanating more heat overall. Noticed the top has a range too - which I'm curious about. Various Vigilant folks mention the placement of the thermometer in the back right corner. I ran mine for a while with the thermometer on the front of the griddle because I can see it easier without having to get up and go across the room to read the temp. Today I got a 2nd thermometer and just for kicks, put on on the rear left and the other on the rear right corners. They were 200 degrees apart - and both were cooler than the front half of the griddle. The rear right corner of the griddle has the coolest temp it seems. (Assuming both thermometers are calibrated the same...not clear that's the case). This is running a small hot fire in updraft mode - damper open. Anyone have an idea why the difference between the two back corners? Both corners have the same distance from the flame, and in this mode there's no secondary chamber engagement that would direct the heat horizontally.