Question regarding NFPA 211 clearances

[trx531]

My Fisher Goldilocks states in the manual a minimum of 12 inches from the rear wall, can this be reduced any more by the use of a heat shield?
NFPA 211 says the heat shield can reduce clearances by 66%, does this mean that I can run it 4 inches with an air gapped heat shield behind the stove?
The stove itself has a built in rear heat shield, so it would essentially be double heat shields in the rear with the wall mounted one.

The stove and hearth protrude into the dining room and prevent the chairs from being pulled out of the dining room table, that's the main reason for wanting to reduce back wall clearance as much as possible, the stove pipe exits the top of the stove and has the 6in clearance that the duravent DVL requires to the back wall, so the stove pipe wouldn't be an issue.

Need to know as I haven't cut a hole in the roof yet and it's almost time, only want to make one hole and get it right the first time, just need a clarification of the NFPA code.

 

[begreen]

Is this 12" before or after adding an NFPA211 wall-shield? 12" is the minimum - after a proper, ventilated, wall-shield has been added. This is what I see in the manual.

 

[bholler]

My Fisher Goldilocks states in the manual a minimum of 12 inches from the rear wall, can this be reduced any more by the use of a heat shield?
NFPA 211 says the heat shield can reduce clearances by 66%, does this mean that I can run it 4 inches with an air gapped heat shield behind the stove?
The stove itself has a built in rear heat shield, so it would essentially be double heat shields in the rear with the wall mounted one.

The stove and hearth protrude into the dining room and prevent the chairs from being pulled out of the dining room table, that's the main reason for wanting to reduce back wall clearance as much as possible, the stove pipe exits the top of the stove and has the 6in clearance that the duravent DVL requires to the back wall, so the stove pipe wouldn't be an issue.

Need to know as I haven't cut a hole in the roof yet and it's almost time, only want to make one hole and get it right the first time, just need a clarification of the NFPA code.

No clearances cannot be reduced below 12" unless specified in the stove manual

 

[trx531]

Is this 12" before or after adding an NFPA211 wall-shield? 12" is the minimum - after a proper, ventilated, wall-shield has been added. This is what I see in the manual.

View attachment 341538

The 12 inches is before adding the heat shield, the stove comes with its own built in heat shield on the back

 

[trx531]

No clearances cannot be reduced below 12" unless specified in the stove manual

So no UL listed stove is permitted to use a heat shield unless it’s specifically allowed to have one in the manual?

 

[bholler]

So no UL listed stove is permitted to use a heat shield unless it’s specifically allowed to have one in the manual?

You can use them all you want. But all clearances are clearly layed out in the manual. Unless it allows for further reduction you get none.

 

[trx531]

You can use them all you want. But all clearances are clearly layed out in the manual. Unless it allows for further reduction you get none.

But in the manual it says reduced clearances are subject to approval of local officials, so as long as I can get approval from a local official than what you’re saying isn’t true?

 

[bholler]

But in the manual it says reduced clearances are subject to approval of local officials, so as long as I can get approval from a local official than what you’re saying isn’t true?

If you can get them to give you a written waiver modifying state code yes it would be legal. But unless you have that if something happens and you did the install it's all on you.

 

[trx531]

If you can get them to give you a written waiver modifying state code yes it would be legal. But unless you have that if something happens and you did the install it's all on you.

I mean it would be complying with NFPA 211 would it not? I imagine that’s what they’re going to reference when issuing such a “waiver”

 

[Burnin Since 1989]

But in the manual it says reduced clearances are subject to approval of local officials, so as long as I can get approval from a local official than what you’re saying isn’t true?

I think your best bet would be to find out who does the woodstove installation inspections where you live and give them a call and ask them your question. You want to do the install right the first time. Once you start cutting holes and such, it's hard to correct the measurements. And, there is inherent danger of fire in your home if you get your woodstove too close to combustibles.

 

[trx531]

I think your best bet would be to find out who does the woodstove installation inspections where you live and give them a call and ask them your question. You want to do the install right the first time. Once you start cutting holes and such, it's hard to correct the measurements. And, there is inherent danger of fire in your home if you get your woodstove too close to combustibles.

That’s a great idea, I’m going to do exactly that, I’ll update this with more info as it progresses.

 

[bholler]

I mean it would be complying with NFPA 211 would it not? I imagine that’s what they’re going to reference when issuing such a “waiver”

Nfpa 211 states a minimum clearance of 12 with shields because it is a standard for unlisted stoves. When listed the stove manual supersedes any codes.

 

[begreen]

That’s a great idea, I’m going to do exactly that, I’ll update this with more info as it progresses.

NFPA clearances are for unlisted stoves. They provide tested safety guidance. Reading the stove docs, I don't see any mention of a rear heat shield option. @coaly, was this factory option for the stove and if so, were there new clearances issued?

trx531, the problem is that there is no testing of what is being proposed so how one can guarantee its safety? It may or may not be ok but insurance companies want more than just guessing. If a variance is granted by the inspecting authority, be sure to get it in writing.

 

[coaly]

NFPA clearances are for unlisted stoves. They provide tested safety guidance. Reading the stove docs, I don't see any mention of a rear heat shield option. @coaly, was this factory option for the stove and if so, were there new clearances issued?

trx531, the problem is that there is no testing of what is being proposed so how one can guarantee its safety? It may or may not be ok but insurance companies want more than just guessing. If a variance is granted by the inspecting authority, be sure to get it in writing.

Goldilocks has a double heat shield on the rear. 12 inches is minimum clearance.

@trx531, the 66% reduction you are quoting is correct for ventilated shield. Continue reading and you will find it also states 66% reduction down to 12 inches minimum. That means no matter what you do, 12 inches is the minimum.

 

[trx531]

NFPA clearances are for unlisted stoves. They provide tested safety guidance. Reading the stove docs, I don't see any mention of a rear heat shield option. @coaly, was this factory option for the stove and if so, were there new clearances issued?

trx531, the problem is that there is no testing of what is being proposed so how one can guarantee its safety? It may or may not be ok but insurance companies want more than just guessing. If a variance is granted by the inspecting authority, be sure to get it in writing.

But the NFPA specifically says that clearance reduction specifically applies to listed stoves

 

[trx531]

Goldilocks has a double heat shield on the rear. 12 inches is minimum clearance.

@trx531, the 66% reduction you are quoting is correct for ventilated shield. Continue reading and you will find it also states 66% reduction down to 12 inches minimum. That means no matter what you do, 12 inches is the minimum.

But I own stoves that say minimum distance to the back wall is 10 inches, and it’s a UL listed stove, and NFPA says listed stoves can have reduced clearances based on a percentage, and that stove is already listed to be under the 12 inch supposed rule, so how is that possible?

 

[trx531]

Nfpa 211 states a minimum clearance of 12 with shields because it is a standard for unlisted stoves. When listed the stove manual supersedes any codes.

The stove manual says reduced clearances are possible, and NFPA says listed stoves are able to also have reduced clearances, not just unlisted stoves

 

[Burnin Since 1989]

The stove manual says reduced clearances are possible, and NFPA says listed stoves are able to also have reduced clearances, not just unlisted stoves

Do you have a listed or unlisted stove? Does that stove have the UL sticker or plaque on it? If it does you can follow the manual. If it doesn't have a UL sticker you have to follow the guidelines in NFPA 211. Unless you're in Canada, then you have to follow WETT.

 

[trx531]

Do you have a listed or unlisted stove? Does that stove have the UL sticker or plaque on it? If it does you can follow the manual. If it doesn't have a UL sticker you have to follow the guidelines in NFPA 211. Unless you're in Canada, then you have to follow WETT.

All my stoves are UL listed and have the tags intact, the manual says reduced clearances are available

 

[begreen]

But the NFPA specifically says that clearance reduction specifically applies to listed stoves

That says listed and unlisted stoves. Clearance reduction is sometimes permitted with listed stoves if so stated in the manual. The reduction can be down as low as 12" unless the manufacturer has tested with NFPA211 shielding and those tested clearances are given in the manual.

With unlisted stoves, NFPA 211 takes precedence.

In the case of the Goldilocks, the manual says: "Reduced Clearances are Subject to Approval of Local Building Officials".

If the local inspecting authority is willing to sign off on the reduced clearance via properly designed and installed shielding, then it's ok, just be sure to get it in writing. Provide them with good drawings of the proposed reduction and shielding details and a copy of the manual.