RE: And now for something completely different . . . choosing to keep the house cold

[firefighterjake]

(broken link removed)

Apparently these folks have opted to forefo central heat . . . no big deal, right . . . I mean many folks here at hearth.com rely on their woodstove for central heat. However, these folks are not running it 24/7 . . . they're actually planning to live in a cold house. Interesting reading . . . not that I would want to do this . . . or more to the point . . . not that my wife would even consider letting me try this experiment.

 

[firefighterjake]

And here is a link to their blog.

http://coldhousejournal.com/

 

[SolarAndWood]

How do you suppose they arrived at the decision to buy a wood stove last month?

 

[firefighterjake]

And apparently Hearth.com has made news . . . the fella and a person reading his blog both mentioned hearth.com!

--


Jane Says:

January 25, 2010 at 11:29 am | Reply
Just discovered your blog from the NYTimes article and loving it. I’m in VT and not quite as cold-hardy as you are, but using a woodstove for my primary heat and feel quite comfortable with a “house” (really just my main room) temperature in the lower to mid-60s and can certainly tolerate around 55. My stove is also quite small so nothing approaching an overnight burn. It’s soapstone, which means it takes a long time to heat up. So I do use the boiler in my basement overnight, have it set to come on at 50, which is the minimum in which I can function in the AM to get the stove going again.

Anway, just a word of caution about your stove temp. You may know this, but I haven’t read it in your blog entries. Even with well-seasoned dry wood, you’re running a big risk of building up creosote in the chimney (and thus a chimney fire) if you run a non-cat stove all the time at 300. Do check your chimney every few weeks until you get a sense of how quickly it’s building up. And absolutely without fail build a really hot fire — 450 to 500 — at least once a day, which will help to burn off the creosote that’s accumulated before it hardens.

Stoves with catalytic technology, like the Woodstock Fireview, many of the Vermont Castings stoves and various other makers, can run safely for long periods at low temperatures, but the non-cat stoves like yours (and mine) can’t.

I highly recommend, btw, the forums at Hearth.com. The experienced wood burners there coached me through my first year of burning with great patience and superb advice and continue to be a source of new information and even inspiration.
coldhousejournal Says:

January 25, 2010 at 11:53 am | Reply
Thanks for the tips! Yes, hearth.com is great– would not have attempted to do my own install of the wood stove without information gleaned from there. Left to my own devices I’d probably light one, big, hot (500º) fire in the wood stove for about an hour or two each evening, and that would be it. J. is a around a lot more in the day, though, and seems to crave a consistent (even if relatively low) house temperature more than I do– so we do end up with some longer, cooler fires. I’ll check on the chimney as soon as it stops raining(!) out and see how much creosote we’ve accumulated in our chimney over this first month. Come visit if you’re ever in Portland!

 

[Bobbin]

That was a fun and interesting story, Jake. And I don't disagree with much of it. I think "warmth" is sort of relative; is you work outdoors all day long and come into a space that is 10, 15, 20 degrees warmer it feels, "warm". And your body expends less energy to maintain 98.6 degrees. The more active a "lifestyle" the less one tends to "feel" the cold. Our more sedentary lifestyle in 2010 does little to "keep the blood flowing" the way physical activity does.

Interestingly, they wear hats in the house. And on a recent thread ("Now I'm Mad" now in the Ash Can) I suggested the complainers put on a hat! and added that I do when I feel chilly at a workplace that is drafty and frequently "cold" relative to the warmth I'm accustomed to at home.

I have been on a Tudor history jag recently (Renaissance England; Henry VII, VIII, Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I) and the winter months were downright chilly in the large stone palaces of the era. There were open fireplaces and holes in the ceilings of the great halls... there was a reason they hung the walls with woollen tapestries, and all the beds were hung with curtains! And inventories of day to day wardrobes reveal plenty of "layers".

 

[BrowningBAR]

Our furnace died on us last January 14th and a new one wasn't installed until February 15th. The stove saved our asses, but the upstairs was at or below 40 degrees a few times. It sucked. A lot. If it would have happened this year we would have hardly noticed.

 

[ChillyGator]

Our furnace died on us last January 14th and a new one wasn't installed until February 15th. The stove saved our asses, but the upstairs was at or below 40 degrees a few times. It sucked. A lot.

I'd take odds that'll be their final take on the 'Cold House' also.......... :coolhmm:

 

[Todd]

I saw them on the national news and found it kind a odd they burned wood and only kept the house in the 50's. I can tolerate 60's but the wife won't.

 

[moosetrek]

Welcome to "This (C)Old House...". If they insulated really really well, I bet by burning the stove 2X a day they'd be able to get it into the 60s with no probs. 50s-60s is as mentioned a big difference! But to really get the experience, they'd need to spend the day outside burning all the calories that most of the people did decades back...

 

[gyrfalcon]

I saw them on the national news and found it kind a odd they burned wood and only kept the house in the 50's. I can tolerate 60's but the wife won't.

They seem to be doing it as some kind of challenge to themselves, to see if they can use as little energy of any kind as possible and just to see if they can get used to it. It's more than a little perverse, seems to me, to keep your main daytime living space that cold when you have easy, cheap means to warm it the heck up to something reasonable, like, say 60.

 

[coldishhouse]

"How do you suppose they arrived at the decision to buy a wood stove last month?"

1) Needed some way to keep the house above freezing. We may be odd, be we aren't irrational.
2) There was a hole in the wall and a mess on the floor where the previous owner's pellet stove had been. Easier to fill/cover those with a wood stove than patch the plaster and refinish the floor.
3) Found a "blemished factory second" stove, got a tax credit-- it was practically free (okay, not quite, but compared to putting in a furnace?)
4) Friends and family flat-out said they would not come for dinner, let alone spend the night, if we didn't have some source of potential BTU's.
5) To be honest, I (the guy) would like to try living through the winter with no intentionally added heat... but it's not worth sacrificing my relationship with the girl for it!
6) Off topic, but thanks indeed to hearth.com, and all the folks who post here. After dealing with several "professional" installers who were either rapacious ($8,000 to install a 16ft straight-up exterior metal chimney?) or unreliable, or both, I finally did the job myself, with much good information from here. The fire chief inspected the work and pronounced it better than most pro jobs. So, thanks for all the help folks.

 

[thinkxingu]

I read all through this and I'm wondering: they mention space heaters, pipe warming tape, electric blankets, heating pads for chairs, etc. Wouldn't it just be overall better for the environment and comfort to keep a small fire going in the wood stove? They could scrounge wood for free and use less electricity while keeping the house warmer.

S

 

[SolarAndWood]

"How do you suppose they arrived at the decision to buy a wood stove last month?"

1) Needed some way to keep the house above freezing. We may be odd, be we aren't irrational.
2) There was a hole in the wall and a mess on the floor where the previous owner's pellet stove had been. Easier to fill/cover those with a wood stove than patch the plaster and refinish the floor.
3) Found a "blemished factory second" stove, got a tax credit-- it was practically free (okay, not quite, but compared to putting in a furnace?)
4) Friends and family flat-out said they would not come for dinner, let alone spend the night, if we didn't have some source of potential BTU's.
5) To be honest, I (the guy) would like to try living through the winter with no intentionally added heat... but it's not worth sacrificing my relationship with the girl for it!
6) Off topic, but thanks indeed to hearth.com, and all the folks who post here. After dealing with several "professional" installers who were either rapacious ($8,000 to install a 16ft straight-up exterior metal chimney?) or unreliable, or both, I finally did the job myself, with much good information from here. The fire chief inspected the work and pronounced it better than most pro jobs. So, thanks for all the help folks.

Welcome to the forum coldish, you are in good company. I don't consider removing our furnace/ductwork odd or irrational at all.

 

[savageactor7]

Good for them they're survivors...me and mine we're for living. The ONE reason we burn wood is that we want to live large...for less.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

With the old house I'd heat the house to 65 for the short times we were home in the morning and when we got home from work. I'd drop the temp down to 55 at night when we were sleeping or at work. I had a small woodstove in the back room that kept the living areas warm. This year I have a new house and a newborn. The temp is set at a constant 65 and I haven't had the chance to use the woodstove much.

Last winter my NG bill was $426 for a 90 year old house in upstate NY. I don't think I'd go without heat but plan to heat with the woodstove next year. When I go ice fishing I use a small heater in the cabin. It's miserable cold in the mountains without any heat.

Somebody mentioned the indians. I think you'll find they had a small fire in a 1 room building. They had heat. Not much but every bit helps.

Matt

 

[coldishhouse]

"they mention space heaters, pipe warming tape, electric blankets, heating pads for chairs, etc. Wouldn’t it just be overall better for the environment and comfort to keep a small fire going in the wood stove? "

Just to clarify: We haven't used the space heater since putting in the stove (except for in the guest room, when we've had guests.) We don't have pipe warming tape at all; it was just a possibility I mentioned. We do use the electric blanket, at a rate of about 0.3 kWh per night (<$8 for the winter), which we view as a very reasonable concession. The heating pad-- well, we don't use it much, but you should try it. If you're doing sedentary work in a room that's 55º or lower, it's amazing how much comfort you get from [the equivalent of] a lightbulb under your butt!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Probably much more comfortable than the actual (broken) lightbulb under your butt.

 

[Jags]

Coldishouse - I do hope that you take the advice of monitoring you chimney. Slow simmering fires are known to produce dangerous levels of creosote. It would completely ruin your experience to wake up to a REALLY hot house that disappears in a couple of hours (if you know what I mean).

My hat is off to you for battling with mother nature. I have learned long ago that she can be a real groan at times. Stay warm (errrr....cold) and check that chimney.

 

[dvellone]

They look pretty young and they're not married right? Maybe the embers of their youth and young relationship have something to do with it. I've lived in a few cabins that you had to leave your long-johns and wool on once you came in, and in those days of my 20's I'd say that there was a certain amount of heat derived from the enthusiasm for the rusticity of it (and better circulation.) Now, after spending my days out in the cold (and being a couple decades older) one of the greatest pleasures is coming in to a toasty house! Excuse me while I throw a couple splits into the stove before I head back out. ;-)

 

[Slow1]

Those who have read some of my other posts know that we don't really keep our house all that warm - peak temps are around 60-65, central heat doesn't kick in until we fall below 57 (54 at night) unless we have guests then we make concessions in the name of being good hosts.

I have to say that I find the minimalist heat in Maine quite an interesting thing. As an experiment I might enjoy it although I'm not sure I'd enjoy it as a way of life. My family would likely have other ideas - my wife would certainly be upset. Now the kids? Perhaps they would adjust faster than most would expect - they seem to do that at their age (7 and under).

We've done some basic heat recycling (as i call it) - things like keeping the water in the bathtub until it is room temp after kids baths (no point in dumping the heat down the drain I figure). I'm not sure I'm up to the trouble of collecting our dishwasher water though. Time is always a limiting factor here - keeping up with the schedule is tough enough. My wife works from home several days a week as do I on occasion. I'll have to try (and suggest that she try) the sit on a heating pad trick next time the room seems too cold, that sounds like a good suggestion.

More power to you I say! If you learn ways of adjusting and reducing the footprint and others can adopt them then the effect can multiply.

One question I have is how in the world did you manage to buy a house without central heat? Not trying to get too personal here but don't most mortgages require such things to close?

 

[Lumber-Jack]

They look pretty young and they're not married right? Maybe the embers of their youth and young relationship have something to do with it. I've lived in a few cabins that you had to leave your long-johns and wool on once you came in, and in those days of my 20's I'd say that there was a certain amount of heat derived from the enthusiasm for the rusticity of it (and better circulation.) Now, after spending my days out in the cold (and being a couple decades older) one of the greatest pleasures is coming in to a toasty house! Excuse me while I throw a couple splits into the stove before I head back out. ;-)

I think you're on to something there dvellone. ;-)

I have also been in many places that were cold not by choice. You do get used to it, but you appreciate every little bit of warmth that you can create a lot more. I think that is one of the things about wood heat that we find so appealing, it's the satisfaction of the warmth that you have to work for, rather than something that is just there all the time.

 

[djblech]

I was telling my wife about this thread last night and we started wondering how much more wood it takes to keep a house at 70* vs 68 or 65. We are considering turning down the stat on the wood boiler and using the Liberty more to raise temps in the rooms where we spend the most time. I like a warm house with a cool bedroom, hard to get sometimes as are bedrooms are upstairs and the heat rises. Interesting thread.
Doug

 

[Slow1]

I have also been in many places that were cold not by choice. You do get used to it, but you appreciate every little bit of warmth that you can create a lot more. I think that is one of the things about wood heat that we find so appealing, it's the satisfaction of the warmth that you have to work for, rather than something that is just there all the time.

And there is a major point - the appreciation of the warmth. So many folks take it for granted to the extreme and waste it. It is an easy thing to do in a society where we have plenty. It really isn't just heat; it is everything in our lives - food, water, even leisure time. We are a very rich nation in the USA and most of the so called "Developed" countries.

I would dare say that if you are reading this then you have access to a computer and enough free time to spend on this forum then you are a fortunate individual compared to many in the world who, as you are reading this, are going without and would likely be very happy to have just the resources that any of us waste each day - whether energy (electrical, heat..), food (how much more than you need have you eaten? how much has been thrown away for whatever reason?), or water (we flush more clean water each day than some see in a week).

I expect that to do with less of any of these resources may be far easier than many of us realize simply because of the amount that we waste. However, I can't say where the line is between 'enough' and 'waste' for any given resource for myself at this point much less for anyone else. Not my place to judge anyone, but I will (and do) applaud those who makes a clear effort and succeed in making a real reduction in the resources they consume. Perhaps if everyone reduced their consumption there would be more available all around and then it would be easier for all to share these resources with others who don't have them - again an individual decision to make (If you want to share your woodpile good for you, if the govt or anyone else wants to take your woodpile to give to someone else against your will I'll stand with you to defend it).

End of rant.

 

[firefighterjake]

"How do you suppose they arrived at the decision to buy a wood stove last month?"

1) Needed some way to keep the house above freezing. We may be odd, be we aren't irrational.
2) There was a hole in the wall and a mess on the floor where the previous owner's pellet stove had been. Easier to fill/cover those with a wood stove than patch the plaster and refinish the floor.
3) Found a "blemished factory second" stove, got a tax credit-- it was practically free (okay, not quite, but compared to putting in a furnace?)
4) Friends and family flat-out said they would not come for dinner, let alone spend the night, if we didn't have some source of potential BTU's.
5) To be honest, I (the guy) would like to try living through the winter with no intentionally added heat... but it's not worth sacrificing my relationship with the girl for it!
6) Off topic, but thanks indeed to hearth.com, and all the folks who post here. After dealing with several "professional" installers who were either rapacious ($8,000 to install a 16ft straight-up exterior metal chimney?) or unreliable, or both, I finally did the job myself, with much good information from here. The fire chief inspected the work and pronounced it better than most pro jobs. So, thanks for all the help folks.

Not much to add here, except to say a) I'm happy to see you stopped by . . . I suspect more than a few members are interested in your way of life (whether they would choose to do so themselves or not may be a different matter) and b) I'm happy to hear that the advice gained here helped you. Don't be a stranger . . . and thanks for the blog . . . it was good reading.

 

[coldishhouse]

Firefighterjake: Thanks for the encouragement on checking the chimney often. Will do so. We are pretty good about avoiding lame, smoldering fires. Habit thus far has been relatively short but hot fires, sporadically-- so hopefully that's relatively benign. Also, we're putting a relatively small total amount of wood through the stove... so that should help to keep the total creosote on the lower side.

Slow: "One question I have is how in the world did you manage to buy a house without central heat? Not trying to get too personal here but don’t most mortgages require such things to close?"

Good question. It was sort of amazing. Last winter we lived with almost-no-heat in a different house. Over the summer we thought about moving. We happened across a house that was in almost all ways perfect for us. It just happened the house also had no heating system (just a pellet, and a Rinnai propane unit in the cellar). It was September, getting chilly, and the guy couldn't sell it (I assume we were the only people in Portland for whom "no furnace" was actually a selling point) so we got what I consider to be a great deal. But yes, we did have to present the bank with a signed affidavit from the seller that the pellet stove could "keep the house warm". Then, though, we let him take it with him when he moved, as part of our deal : )