Re: Chimney fire

[firefighterjake]

So yesterday the crew on duty responded to a chimney fire . . . and ended up going back twice more before the day was over.

They went once, put the fire out . . . but a few were a bit uneasy . . . said they weren't sure they had really put it out or not. Returned an hour or so later . . . to find a thick creosote plug. Once they busted through that with a weighted chain all hell let loose and they ended up with a major chimney fire. One firefighter said they pulled the chain up at one point and it was red hot and glowing. They put the fire out . . . but returned a third time after the home owner requested us to come back one final time in the evening just to be sure it was out.

Problem is . . . this whole thing could have easily been avoided. Turns out the home owner hasn't swept his chimney for 8 or 9 years. He has only scooped the ashes out from the chimney clean out that happened to fall there.

One firefighter said they had a huge pile of creosote and ash they pulled out -- the biggest he had ever seen.

Needless to say, if the home owner had spent a little bit of money and time sweeping the chimney in the past few years he could have avoided having a now non-functional chimney and the need to replace the liner.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

How often was the owner using that thing, and not cleaning it for nine years?! Reminds me of the house we bought, where the owners hadn't pumped the septic in 50 years. Five-oh, fifty. Thankfully two inspections gave it a passing grade.

Could that chimney fire have swept back into the guy's house, or would it just rage away in the chimney?

 

[beatlefan]

I hope everyone that's new to wood heat read Jake's post. We had a stove when I was a kid. I was home alone when I was 12 and I stood in the yard and watched my house burn to the ground 7 days before Christmas 1981. Chimney fire. My folks hadn't swept the chimney in 7 years.

 

[bwells794]

I'm interested in learning more about chimney fires (but not enough to start one in mire lol). Lets assume you had a wood stove installed on/in a fireplace hearth and the chimney had a SS liner. Should a creosote coating in the liner go up in flames, what would realistically happen? What's the burn time on creosote? How hot does it burn?

Edit for more questions: what is the by-product of burnt creosote? How does creosote act while combusting?

 

[quotejso]

I'm interested in learning more about chimney fires (but not enough to start one in mire lol). Lets assume you had a wood stove installed on/in a fireplace hearth and the chimney had a SS liner. Should a creosote coating in the liner go up in flames, what would realistically happen? What's the burn time on creosote? How hot does it burn?

Edit for more questions: what is the by-product of burnt creosote? How does creosote act while combusting?

I think some burn there creosote. It burns very good on my old jotul you could hear it drip back down the single wall pipe I assume it was just burning when it got close to the stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

How often was the owner using that thing, and not cleaning it for nine years?! Reminds me of the house we bought, where the owners hadn't pumped the septic in 50 years. Five-oh, fifty. Thankfully two inspections gave it a passing grade.

Could that chimney fire have swept back into the guy's house, or would it just rage away in the chimney?

I'm not sure if he burned occasionally or 24-7 to be honest. If I had to guess though I would say he burned frequently based on the description of the ash and creosote pile.

The problem with chimney fires is not so much that they can back up into a home . . . but rather if the fire occurs in an old chimney, or rather a chimney with say no liner or a cracked liner the flames can burn into nearby construction . . . or if there is enough heat at a long enough time it can ignite nearby combustibles. In modern chimneys, say with a liner or Class A, they tend to be safer in terms of containing the heat and actual flame impingement on to combustibles, but given enough time I am sure they too could fail.

 

[peakbagger]

My neighbor was an "expert" with chimney fires. Even though he left a ladder in place and cleaned the flue a few times a season he would have chimney fires. He tended to burn wet wood with a old tarm with no storage, the flue runs through an exterior masonry chimney. He had enough fires that he cracked his liner. So then he decided to have an insulated liner installed. He had a few fires with the liner and then it failed. Wet wood and an improper stove installation trump just about any chimney although sometimes instead of building up in the Chimney it makes it out the stack to pollute the countryside.

The byproduct of creosote is inorganic ash. The primary constituents of creosote are crudely distilled "tars". Heat them up enough and they start to melt into vapor and light off. As long as these vapors have air, they burn vigorously which speed up the remaining tars to turn into vapors leading to even higher temperatures. Once it gets burning the only hope is remove the air supply.

 

[bholler]

I'm interested in learning more about chimney fires (but not enough to start one in mire lol). Lets assume you had a wood stove installed on/in a fireplace hearth and the chimney had a SS liner. Should a creosote coating in the liner go up in flames, what would realistically happen? What's the burn time on creosote? How hot does it burn?

Edit for more questions: what is the by-product of burnt creosote? How does creosote act while combusting?

If everything is installed correctly and the liner is insulated the chances of the fire spreading to the rest of the house are slim. But it can happen. If the liner is not insulated the chances are much greater. Any liner will fail eventually if exposed to enough chimney fires and when it does it will let creosote get outside that liner and then if it catches fire outside that liner things can get really ugly. creosote burns at about 2200 degrees

 

[begreen]

Why you don't want to just burn up the sote in the chimney with multiple chimney fires. And why a stainless steel liner is far better than clay.

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[sunrayjack12]

I am fairly new to wood stoves just second season but have always had those cheap wood , pre fabs, just to say we had a fire place.
I put these stoves in and I promise you ,they are in right and are the easiest set up to clean.
I came out of the stove straight about three feet, hit a 90 and 2 foot over to a clean out tee.
Then straight up to the cap, the top is easy to reach for clean outs, take the cap off tape a plastic bag on the clean out tee and run the brush up from the bottom.
That thing was so easy to clean,it is an epa stove and we ran it from early november to about the end of march, just powdery dust in it.
Like with most things, if it's a pain in the butt to clean and makes a mess, you probably will not do it very often.
I would say that is one of the most important parts of an install, make maintenance easy as possible.

 

[LocustPocust]

Turns out the home owner hasn't swept his chimney for 8 or 9 years.

*smh* A few days before Thanksgiving last year a family got burned out of their home and the fire started in the chimney, which they didn't clean for 3 years. That part of town is on the outskirts and doesn't have hydrants and by the time the fire department got a water supply established the only thing they were able to save was a pile of burnt wood. They lost everything.

I myself am kind of OCD about chimney cleaning. I give mine and the thimble and stove pipe a good sweeping once a month. I burn mostly seasoned wood and burn it hot so I don't really have an issue with excessive creosote, what I get is mostly dust.

Just tonight I noticed the guy across the street was really smoking his stove. He's had multiple chimney fires over the years and had to have a new chimney built once and apparently it doesn't bother him in the least. I have never seen him burn his stove hot, just a steady stream of smoke from his chimney for days and days. I think I've seen him clean the chimney twice in the last 10 years, probably when it clogs to the point where it won't draft anymore. The last 2 chimney fires he had nobody in the neighborhood even called the fire department.

 

[sunrayjack12]

I'm still on the learning curve of wood stove operation, but I keep a hot stove and fire .
When I drive down the road now and see those fireplaces smoking like old locomotives, I just can not believe people can say they would rather have that ,than a clean burning stove.
I am an ex navy boilerman, and I can tell you when you smoke black, that fire has too much fuel and not enough air, I like the epa stoves I have.
Besides, the neighbors have much less to potentially complain about.

 

[begreen]

Just tonight I noticed the guy across the street was really smoking his stove. He's had multiple chimney fires over the years and had to have a new chimney built once and apparently it doesn't bother him in the least

Sometimes folks seem denser than the wood they're burning.

 

[velvetfoot]

My neighbor's house burned down because of a fire in an unlined chimney with cracks in it. The replacement house just got built, sans wood stove.

 

[LocustPocust]

I keep a hot stove and fire .

That's the way to do it, plus an occasional chimney sweeping you should never have a problem.

When I drive down the road now and see those fireplaces smoking like old locomotives

All those wasted BTUs..

 

[begreen]

I know a fellow that blamed a chimney fire that took out about 1/4 of the house on the guys that installed the chimney. Guess who has the smokiest fireplace in the neighborhood now in a new house. Some people never learn.

 

[sunrayjack12]

i like the way you guys, think!