Realistic BTU output from non-cat wood stoves

[Thomas_sefton]

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

I was just wondering if anyone has any information on a realistic expectation of burn times and btu output of a smaller non-cat wood stove. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to splurge for a cat stove, or to just save my money and stick with a secondary burning model. I'm comparing something like a $800 NC-13, or just bite the bullet and spend $2500+ on an Woodstock Ideal Steel. Open to opinions also, just some models that looked appropriate and appealing.

I have a 1500 sq foot VERY open floor plan, with roughly 1000 in a 20 foot wide x 50 foot long run with the living/ dining/ kitchen area where the stove will be located. 12 foot ceilings r-19 walls, r60+ in the attic. I want the wood stove for emergency backup heat/ ambiance/ assist the heat pump when its colder. My electric is pretty cheap, so shoulder seasons are no big deal, just have some freeze up issues with the heat pump when its 10 or colder out, not THAT often in southern Ohio.

Heat load is very low, which is my concern for a secondary burning model, 24k btu from the heat pump keeps it warm in here no problem so anything more than that is not gonna take long to cook me out, can some/ any of the non cat models REALISTICALLY be ran that slow without creosoting up, or burning 1 log for 30 mins off an on all the time? Thanks for any opinions or thoughts!


Ben

 

[Highbeam]

To say that 24k btu from a heat pump is enough assumes that you have no duct losses, that your heat pump is always running at 100% output, and that the rated output is for heating. Not sure that this is reasonable given the varying efficiency of a heat pump depending on outdoor temperatures.

You have 1500 sf with 12’ ceilings. The nc13 is too small. The IS is a much larger stove and might be too big.

There are lots of other choices that fall in between those extremes in both size and cost.

The btu rating of a stove is mostly useless. It’s not a furnace, there is a peak in a burn cycle.

 

[begreen]

For mostly emergency and ambiance burning, the 13-NC will do the job, if you can find one. There are other stoves in the 2cu ft range that are available. My preference is a stove with a deeper firebox for N/S loading. The key to success will be having an adequate height flue system and good dry firewood.

 

[Woody Stover]

The nc13 is too small. The IS is a much larger stove and might be too big.

Agreed..as begreen said, 13NC might be close.

The key to success will be having an adequate height flue system and good dry firewood.

As usual, begreen strips away the chaff.
Sounds like, with 12' ceiling, plus attic, you'll have enough stack height, around 15' or so, for about any stove
Split and stack lightweight woods, top-covered only so wind can blow through, now and you'll be good for next season; Soft Maple, Cherry, dead Sassafras, or any dead standing trees <8" with the bark falling off, that you can scrounge from a wood lot.
We burned mostly cat stoves but I recently got my SIL the non-cat T5. No problem burning a small load for a short burst of heat, which your well-weatherized house will hold for a long time. You don't really need the low burn of a cat stove when your house is reasonably tight, and you get a nice fire show with a non-cat. But no, you can't run 'em low like you can with a cat, non-cat is more of a pulse-and-glide approach. Loading a short load occasionally isn't going to be a big hassle, once you get good at it.
For backup heat, no need to break the bank. You can get a decent value stove, like Drolet or Englander, that will do the job for you.

 

[Woody Stover]

The 12' ceiling gives you a built-in buffer to prevent a roast-out, in case you load a little too much wood.

 

[Thomas_sefton]

For mostly emergency and ambiance burning, the 13-NC will do the job, if you can find one. There are other stoves in the 2cu ft range that are available. My preference is a stove with a deeper firebox for N/S loading. The key to success will be having an adequate height flue system and good dry firewood.

What would be your recommendations for a roughly 2 cu/ft stove that you could load n/s? Most of the stoves in that range seem to be only 8 inches deep or so?

Yes draft should be no problem... 12 foot ceilings, then 3 foot to the roof and probably another 4 for clearences sake...easily 15' from the top of the stove.. also planning on double wall interior pipe, I figured it would help draft and be safer..correct?

 

[Highbeam]

Check out the PE alderlea T5.

 

[lsucet]

You don't really need the low burn of a cat stove when your house is reasonably tight,

I always understood that in that environment is where cat stove shines because the low and slow is where they have good efficiency and emissions but for what I am reading now looks like it is not like that. I am confused now.

 

[stovelark]

Bear in mind too that stove sq footage ratings are based on 8 foot ceilings- if you have 12 foot ceilings and 1500 sqft, then its really the volume of 2250 sq ft (with 8 foot ceilings). I'm thinking larger stove needed at times, but of course as a supplementary heater, any size stove will help... but if you want a stove to be the sole heater, I'd go T5/T6, Jotul F55 Carrabassett etc something on the larger size.

 

[begreen]

What would be your recommendations for a roughly 2 cu/ft stove that you could load n/s? Most of the stoves in that range seem to be only 8 inches deep or so?

Yes draft should be no problem... 12 foot ceilings, then 3 foot to the roof and probably another 4 for clearences sake...easily 15' from the top of the stove.. also planning on double wall interior pipe, I figured it would help draft and be safer..correct?

If you are on a tight budget, then the True North TN20 is a good value. For a bit more $ look at the PE Super LE. The PE Alderlea takes it up a notch further with a cast iron jacket. And look at the Jotul F45 too. The Englander 50SSW01 could also work.

 

[Dix]

The 13 is an awesome little heater. Lives up to it's heating capacity 1800 SF.

Down side. 4 - 6 hour burns max on primo firewood.

I love that thing, just wish it were a tad bigger.

 

[Woody Stover]

I always understood that in that environment is where cat stove shines because the low and slow is where they have good efficiency and emissions but for what I am reading now looks like it is not like that. I am confused now.

Yes, running a cat stove low and slow is fine. What I'm saying is that with a tight envelope, you can burn shorter, hot loads in a non-cat and that will work as well. He's got good insulation, and I'm assuming good air-sealing. Yes, when you are getting the stove up to temp, non-cat emissions will be higher but with top-down starts it's still pretty clean. Over the long haul, emissions may not be much different than running a constant low burn in a cat stove, and the amount of wood used might not be too different.
He's pretty close to me, and we have a lot of moderate temps where you don't need a lot of heat. Even in our house, with no wall insulation and a considerable amount of air leaking, I don't make an effort to keep the stove burning constantly..the house just doesn't lose heat all that fast, and room temp doesn't vary more than a couple degrees. As much experience as I have starting fires, with a small SuperCedar chunk and a couple little Pine sticks, re-lighting the stove isn't a big deal at all. Of course, you need dry wood for easy top-down starts..
For economical backup heat, non-cat might be the way to go.

 

[jetsam]

Cat vs. noncat really boils down to whether you want to be able to turn the stove down to low heat output. From what you said, you want a cat stove.

Not all cat stoves have a low burn though- do your homework on the models you like before buying. Blaze King is the low and slow champ.

Don't expect real long burns in any 2cf stove (unless BK has one, which I don't think they do). You can go 24 hours plus on their 2.8cf Princess, though. I burn mine right through 50-60 degree days. It won't cook you out (if you give it the flue it requires).

 

[begreen]

Cat vs. noncat really boils down to whether you want to be able to turn the stove down to low heat output. From what you said, you want a cat stove.

Not all cat stoves have a low burn though- do your homework on the models you like before buying. Blaze King is the low and slow champ.

Don't expect real long burns in any 2cf stove (unless BK has one, which I don't think they do). You can go 24 hours plus on their 2.8cf Princess, though. I burn mine right through 50-60 degree days. It won't cook you out (if you give it the flue it requires).

BK makes 2 cu ft stoves like the Sirocco, Chinook and Ashford 20. Well, actually 1.8 cu ft.

 

[Highbeam]

BK makes 2 cu ft stoves like the Sirocco, Chinook and Ashford 20. Well, actually 1.8 cu ft.

The minimum output rates on those 20 box stoves is actually higher than the larger 2.8 cubic foot 30 box and princes models. The 20 box holds less fuel so the burn time at that low rate is correspondingly lower. Cat stoves are able to control their burn rate so well that firebox size is less of an indication of heating capabilities and more about how long the stove can burn.

If somebody insists on a 2 cf stove then yep, there’s a bk for that and a few Woodstocks too.

 

[begreen]

If somebody insists on a 2 cf stove then yep, there’s a bk for that and a few Woodstocks too.

And others like Kuma, Buck, Regency, etc., plus some hybrids coming on the market.

 

[Highbeam]

S

And others like Kuma, Buck, Regency, etc., plus some hybrids coming on the market.

Since the OP specifically is looking for low output I think we can be more helpful and steer him towards those stoves that excel in this area. The kuma is new but is looking good.

 

[Woody Stover]

As I said, a cat or non-cat will work, and not all that much differently. Both my SIL (non-cat) and I (cat) burn a load or two a day, maybe a little more if it's very cold and windy. Her T5, even on a partial load, will hold coals and produced enough heat so room temp doesn't drop much overnight.
You said the stove is for emergency, or backup for the heat pump when it's cold out. But if you're like many, you might enjoy burning wood, and the feel of wood heat, and you may end up doing it more often. Or you might continue relying on the heat pump/cheap electricity rates. You'd be able to make the best guess which way you might be leaning.
In picking the T5 for my SIL, I figured that the simplest, lowest-maintenance stove would benefit both her and me, in money and time. I might have a non-cat in here, except I need a low rear-vent to get under my fireplace lintel. I also liked the quality I saw in my other SIL's used Woodstock Fireview, so that's the way I went.
That reminds me...what kind of footprint do you want the stove to fit into? Sounds like floor space may be at somewhat of a premium. Is it going to be a straight up connector pipe/Class A chimney? Yes, having the option to load N-S is nice, but the stove is more boxy and sticks out into the room more than a shallower E-W loader would (depends on the clearance requirements/shielding options of the stove model, too.) I have an E-W loader with andirons to keep the wood off the glass, and it works great. We usually load the T5 N-S.
I assume the bedroom is downstairs?
Looking at the T4, it looks like an E-W box shape..more wide than deep. No andirons. Small 1.5 cu.ft. box..might not hold room temp real well on a cold, windy night, or have many coals left to light on. The way this winter has played out though, how much cold weather is there ever gonna be? I swept the walk twice, never even got out the snow shovel. Mighta been a couple nights that got down to low teens.
Since you mentioned Woodstock, if you go with a cat, what about the AS, a bit smaller than the IS? I haven't seen one, just read posts by operators, but based on those and my experience with the brand, the quality and engineering you get for the money probably favors Ws more than some of the other plate-steel jobs.
We're also not sure yet of how some of the new stoves for 2020 will work out. Some, like Regency and Ws, are established hybrids. The T5 added the EBT2 that they already had on the T6, but I don't know if they are also letting more air into the box at low setting for a cleaner burn. That would make for a hotter stove..
I called the warehouse and got my SIL a 2019 T5, and you might be able to do that now and get a discount, I don't know. I still don't know whether I shoulda just got a 2020 or not..I have no way to compare the two models until I see a 2020 burn in person.
Just don't have it delivered to that idiot dealer in Louisville, like I did..