Really need advice on new stove!

[sabres]

Hi all, and thanks for reading!

I have a 20++ year old Vermont Castings Defiant Encore that the tech from the store we bought it from (used) says is not worth rebuilding. I dont have the skills to tackle it myself. Anyway, I went there the other day and put a deposit on a new stove, same type, but think I am getting ripped off - and I dont like that feeling.

First off, they are charging me $300 to deliver the new stove and take the old one away. I literally live five miles from this store and it is a straight swap out, no other installation ... chimney is in great shape ...bring new one in and replace. I think this is absurd.

Secondly cost for the stove itself is $2699. I have been told this is high.

Lastly, I am told (by another dealer) that there are better stoves out there. He specifically mentioned Jotul as a better stove for less money.

Im a little scared to move away from VC as I have heated with it for 20++ years and know it as reliable ...
thoughts please?

Thank you in advance!

 

[DougA]

I just replaced an old VC Resolute this past winter. VC used to make great stoves - the best IMHO. Then, the company changed hands multiple times, new EPA regs. came in and the VC stoves had huge problems, a saga of some very bad designs, changed hands again and the saga continues. Many would not touch a VC again, ever. Some still like them.

The other dealer is correct, there are better stoves out there. I think the delivery charge is way too high and you could probably get some $$ for the old one at a scrap yard that may cover the cost of renting a small uhaul trailer.

Lastly, you really need to have a professional check your chimney. Mine was 30 yrs old and appeared perfect but I replaced it anyway after a few inspectors refused to certify it due to age. It's not something you should take for granted.

 

[sabres]

I just replaced an old VC Resolute this past winter. VC used to make great stoves - the best IMHO. Then, the company changed hands multiple times, new EPA regs. came in and the VC stoves had huge problems, a saga of some very bad designs, changed hands again and the saga continues. Many would not touch a VC again, ever. Some still like them.

The other dealer is correct, there are better stoves out there. I think the delivery charge is way too high and you could probably get some $$ for the old one at a scrap yard that may cover the cost of renting a small uhaul trailer.

Lastly, you really need to have a professional check your chimney. Mine was 30 yrs old and appeared perfect but I replaced it anyway after a few inspectors refused to certify it due to age. It's not something you should take for granted.

Thank you. The chimney was checked out last year by my very knowledgable neighbor (who heats with wood MUCH more than I do.) He said it was good-to-go. Are there stoves you would recommend? The other dealer I spoke with said Jotul. I have a small home, 1500 sq ft. Thanks!

 

[DAKSY]

Your delivery entails moving a 518 Lb stove. That's gonna take two men with a handtruck & a vehicle to get it there.
They have to first load it on the truck. They may have a fork lift to get it close, but generally
it's loaded by hand & secured.
Your "STRAIGHT SWAP OUT" means that they have to unload the new one & set it aside.
Then they have to disconnect the old one & load it on their truck & secure it.
Then they have to bring the new one onto your protected hearth or stove pad &
try to move 518 LBS by FRACTIONS OF AN INCH AT A TIME, without damaging it, until it is situated
correctly under your existing connector pipe & looks exactly what you want it to look like.
Maybe $300 isn't so bad after all...
That being said, I'd go for a JOTUL.

 

[begreen]

The other dealer is correct. There are better stoves on the market. Jotul is a fine brand. If you want other alternatives, we can help you with that.

Sell the old stove for $100 and let them haul it away. Once sold, book the new stove installation.

 

[DougA]

The chimney was checked out last year by my very knowledgable neighbor

I would still get a certified installer or sweep to check it. Do you want to put your families lives in his hands?
I spent 6 months of intense reading, phoning mfgs, visiting many showrooms before I narrowed my choice down to 2 models. I am heating with one of the largest stoves and have no knowledge of smaller stoves. This forum is an awesome resource to start but you really need to visit lots of dealers who sell multiple models before you can make a good decision. You are looking for a great stove and a great dealer - both are vital. It is well worth the time you will spend.

 

[sabres]

Thank you all for your kind and intelligent comments! I would be interested in any opinions on other stoves vs. Vermont Castings. I prefer cast iron. Thanks!

 

[DougA]

I would take a long hard look at the Woodstock stoves. I mention this even though I don't own one but there are many owners here who are thrilled with them and they are sold direct from factory only. I would have bought one but not certified for Canada. Their steel hybrid is an industry leader for efficiency and low emissions. May not be your pick on design though. If you can afford it, nothing beats a soapstone stove - I admit I own one of those and am very happy with the soapstone concept. Beats the heck out of cast iron. May not be too far from you either.

 

[begreen]

In cast iron I would look at Jotul and Hearthstone for starters. Also note that as an alternative if you don't need a radiant stove, there are cast iron jacketed stoves that perform very well. These are steel stoves inside, but with a most attractive cast iron outer shell. When looking at the Jotuls you will see this option in their F45, F50 and F55 stoves. A few other stoves to consider if you like this concept are Enviro Boston 1700 and the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 or T6. Quadrafire introduced the Explorer II which looks like a nice stove too.

 

[firefighterjake]

In cast iron I would look at Jotul and Hearthstone for starters. Also note that as an alternative if you don't need a radiant stove, there are cast iron jacketed stoves that perform very well. These are steel stoves inside, but with a most attractive cast iron outer shell. When looking at the Jotuls you will see this option in their F45, F50 and F55 stoves. A few other stoves to consider if you like this concept are Enviro Boston 1700 and the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 or T6. Quadrafire introduced the Explorer II which looks like a nice stove too.

^ This . . .

That said . . . oftentimes folks here will sing the praises of their own brand stove since that is the type they are most familiar with . . . and the same pretty much holds true for me. Begreen has given you lots of options, but do check out the Jotul line up. They make some quality stoves that to me look fairly similar to the Vermont Castings and are very reliable. My Oslo has had nothing done to it since I installed it in 2008 . . . haven't even had to change out the gaskets yet . . . although I suspect I will have to do so at some point.

 

[Grisu]

If one appeal for you is the top-loading feature of the VC stoves, take a look at the F50 Rangeley from Jotul. However, pricewise it will be in the same ballpark.

Jotul also has a promotion going for $300 off when you trade in an old, non-EPA approved stove. I don't think your old stove will qualify but you can try. Or see if you can find an old "scrap metal" stove somewhere else.

 

[begreen]

Also note that all of the stoves mentioned are much less complex stoves than the VC line. That makes them lower maintenance and easier to service as well as run.

 

[webby3650]

^ This . . .

That said . . . oftentimes folks here will sing the praises of their own brand stove since that is the type they are most familiar with . . . and the same pretty much holds true for me. Begreen has given you lots of options, but do check out the Jotul line up. They make some quality stoves that to me look fairly similar to the Vermont Castings and are very reliable. My Oslo has had nothing done to it since I installed it in 2008 . . . haven't even had to change out the gaskets yet . . . although I suspect I will have to do so at some point.

I agree, most folks will try their hardest to sell you on the type of stove they have. That's why I've made it my mission to try every stove on the market!
That being said, soapstone was my least favorite stove type. It does have a heat life after the fire goes out, but you pay for that in the beginning, it takes forever to get up to temperature. No offense to soapstone lovers out there, I'm just not a fan compared to iron and steel. Jotul makes a fantastic stove, you won't be disappointed.

 

[sabres]

Hi again everyone ... I had the opportunity today to go to a local dealer that sells Jotul stoves.
One decision was made: I want one that has an ash pan.
Probably not a big deal for most of you, but it is what I am familiar with from the VC stove.
The four I liked are: F400 Castine, F500 Oslo, F600 Firelight CB and the F 50 TL Rangeley.
I think the firelight and the Rangeley may be overkill for my little 1500 ft. sq. house, though.

Any thoughts from any of you on these four stoves? Thank you in advance!

 

[begreen]

If you want to heat 24/7 I would consider the Oslo at the top of the list. And if you can afford it the blue-black enamel finish is both beautiful, but very practical for standing up well year after year. The Oslo is primarily a side-loading stove so the hearth would need to be wide enough on the left side to accommodate loading and clearances.

 

[DougA]

soapstone was my least favorite stove type. It does have a heat life after the fire goes out, but you pay for that in the beginning, it takes forever to get up to temperature.

I agree with the last part HOWEVER, if you are burning 24/7 all winter, that really is of zero consequence. Once at temp., the soapstone stays in a range from very warm to hot. It does not go through the extremes of 'very hot to cool' cycles that I used to experience with a cast stove.
If not burning 24/7, then I would avoid soapstone.

 

[Grisu]

Hi again everyone ... I had the opportunity today to go to a local dealer that sells Jotul stoves.
One decision was made: I want one that has an ash pan.
Probably not a big deal for most of you, but it is what I am familiar with from the VC stove.
The four I liked are: F400 Castine, F500 Oslo, F600 Firelight CB and the F 50 TL Rangeley.
I think the firelight and the Rangeley may be overkill for my little 1500 ft. sq. house, though.

Any thoughts from any of you on these four stoves? Thank you in advance!

The F500 would be a good choice. A proven performer that is well-liked around here. That it can be ordered in several colors is another plus. However, be aware that it loads much easier from the side than the front. Do you have the space/hearth for that? If not, take a look at the F45 Greenville. It has a similar size and is a dedicated frontloader.

 

[webby3650]

If you want to heat 24/7 I would consider the Oslo at the top of the list. And if you can afford it the blue-black enamel finish is both beautiful, but very practical for standing up well year after year. The Oslo is primarily a side-loading stove so the hearth would need to be wide enough on the left side to accommodate loading and clearances.

I've had an Olso and a 602 in Blue/Black, it is a great finish and holds up very well. It always looks new, but isn't as fragile and prone to chipping like enamel is. It's well worth the money!

 

[webby3650]

I agree with the last part HOWEVER, if you are burning 24/7 all winter, that really is of zero consequence. Once at temp., the soapstone stays in a range from very warm to hot. It does not go through the extremes of 'very hot to cool' cycles that I used to experience with a cast stove.
If not burning 24/7, then I would avoid soapstone.

Since we are gone for 10+ hours a day and heat exclusively with wood, the Mansfield would be sitting at about 180 degrees at the end of the day. It took a long time to start making respectable heat again. This is just my experience with it.

 

[firefighterjake]

Oslo or Greenville . . . either one of those should work for you.

If you go with the Oslo you can do the "cheap" route and go with the matte black . . . but I would highly recommend the blue black finish . . . it really is my only regret in buying the Oslo.

As others have said be sure you can use the side loading door . . . the front loading door is great for when it comes time to clean the glass, but it's a pain to use when loading as a lot of ash will spill out. The other negative with the Oslo is the air control lever sometime sticks after awhile . . . but a liberal amount of graphite powder can fix that problem.

Ash pan works great with the Oslo . . . although you do want to remember to take a shovel after pulling out the ash pan and shovel out any ash that inevitably builds up behind the ash pan . . . there have been a few folks who had issues with the ash pan not fitting in well due to ash build up. And of course, if you go this route, or go with any stove that has an ash pan . . . do not leave the ash pan door ajar to get the fire going . . . it may seem smart and work well . . . but the long term damage can be substantial.