Recessing a hearth

[Holzstapel]

Has anyone cut into their existing floor and recessed a hearth? One of the stove suppliers who came by to give us an estimate mentioned that a recessed hearth would be better for our situation because of the house traffic. We also visited a stone supplier and he too said a recessed hearth would be ideal for us.

The Stove guy said our current oak floor is 3/4" thick. He said to remove the floorboards down to the subfloor, add cement board and then tile ontop. He wasn't 100% sure that the Jotuls only needed ember protection, but I believe they do. In the manual it states the following:

The Jotul F45 requires one of the following forms of hearth protection if not installed directly on concrete poured on earth:

1. Any UL/ULC Type I, Type II, or Warnock Hersey Listed Hearth board.
2. Any noncombustible material.

I'm thinking we could have the tile hearth just about level with the existing wood floor. We remove the existing floor down to the subfloor, install 1/2" durarock and then 1/4" tile on top of that.

Would the mortar bump up the tiles past the existing wood floor?

Any ideas on how to trim out the edge to make it look nice?

 

[Cynnergy]

Hi Holzstapel,

I haven't actually cut into my floor, but I'm pretty sure that's do-able (although a lot of work). Our hearth is slate and varies from about 1/4" to 1/2" proud of the pine floor. You could just put the durock on top of the oak I think, although I'm not if the expansion/contraction of the wood underneath the durock might cause problems (ours is on top of the plywood subfloor). I am going to be following this for the trim-out:

http://inspiredremodeling.com/2011/06/08/some-artistic-tile-for-the-hearth/

We also mitred the edges of the floor around the hearth, a la here (about halfway down the page): http://inspiredremodeling.com/project-galleries/showers-and-other-tile-projects/

I'll post a pic of my install shortly on a separate thread.

 

[Holzstapel]

Of all the work we are thinking about doing for our install, i believe cutting out the existing floor is the easiest. The lower we can get it to the existing floor level, the better we will be.

Looking forward to your install pic.

 

[webby3650]

I agree that removing the hardwood flooring is best. If you use 1/4 backer board there will be no difference in height. 1/4 backer embedded into thinset and then screwed in a 6x6 grid is whats recommended for floors. Don't skimp on the screws and be sure to get the screws that are made for the type of backer you buy.

 

[elmoleaf]

Remember, the quoted floor protection is only valid with the bottom heat shield installed. I assume also it may change if you have a short leg kit installed.
UL Type 1 floor protection is ember protection only, no thermal resistance. So presumably, "any non combustible material" is just ember protection.

I did exactly what you propose. Yes 1/2 cement board and 1/4" tile is equal in height to typical 3/4" wood floor. However, thinset will push the total assembly to be slightly proud of your surrounding floor. Also, if the plywood subfloor has any unsupported joints in the proposed work area you may want to add blocking below. Subfloor is typically only 1/2" plywood and may tend to flex if not stiffened at unsupported joints.
Cut the oak floor out to leave about 1/2" gap to your cement board. Infill after tile installation with oak trim to create transition from top of floor to top of tile.

 

[webby3650]

If you use 1/2" backer board and the proper amount of thinset, it will be quit a bit higher than the surrounding floor.

 

[jeff_t]

If you use 1/2" backer board and the proper amount of thinset, it will be quit a bit higher than the surrounding floor.

It has worked out good for me, twice. Darn close to, maybe just a tad higher than, good carpet and padding. It would be way higher than 3/4" hardwood.

 

[Tenn Dave]

When I built my house last year, I purchased a hearth pad from Woodstock Stove Company and had it laid on the subfloor on a layer of thinset.mortar. I then had the hardwood floor installed around it. The hearth pad stands proud of the finished floor by approx 1/2 inch. I will attach a couple of pictures to give you an idea of what it looks like. Just click on them to enlarge and get a close up look.

 

[begreen]

That is exactly how our stove is installed, but with a Hearth Classic corner pad. No thinset needed. It sits right on the subfloor and has been solid as a rock. As you can see, it has his approval.

 

[Tenn Dave]

That is exactly how our stove is installed, but with a Hearth Classic corner pad. No thinset needed. It sits right on the subfloor and has been solid as a rock. As you can see, it has his approval.

View attachment 109386

The thinset was the builder's idea. I thought it was overkill, but he insisted.

 

[begreen]

I hear ya. When a builder is outside of his comfort or experience zone, overkill is typical. You were right. He's lucky the thinset didn't cause the particle board underside to swell.

 

[Holzstapel]

Thank you all for the replies and ideas. We are going to go with a recessed hearth and just last night I found some tile on Ebay. We have a table in our house that my inlaws built by hand in their apartment back in the 70's. It has an inlaid heart mosaic pattern that we both really love. Last week, my wife and I were commenting how nice it would be if we were to find that type of tile for the hearth. I thought she had googled around for it, but last night I decided i should look on ebay. The very last listing was 10 sheets of the exact same tile for $150 with free shipping. It should arrive in about a week and then it's on to laying them out and moving forward with the hearth. We are going to make the hearth 42"x42" which will look nicer than any other size we have laid out. Will will still have to choose a border tile to tie it all in, but I don't think that will be difficult. The mosaic tile is 1/8" think so we can go with 1/2" durarock and have a better chance of being flush with the floor.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Thank you all for the replies and ideas. We are going to go with a recessed hearth and just last night I found some tile on Ebay. We have a table in our house that my inlaws built by hand in their apartment back in the 70's. It has an inlaid heart mosaic pattern that we both really love. Last week, my wife and I were commenting how nice it would be if we were to find that type of tile for the hearth. I thought she had googled around for it, but last night I decided i should look on ebay. The very last listing was 10 sheets of the exact same tile for $150 with free shipping. It should arrive in about a week and then it's on to laying them out and moving forward with the hearth. We are going to make the hearth 42"x42" which will look nicer than any other size we have laid out. Will will still have to choose a border tile to tie it all in, but I don't think that will be difficult. The mosaic tile is 1/8" think so we can go with 1/2" durarock and have a better chance of being flush with the floor.

Sounds real good. Make sure you post some pictures when the job is complete.

 

[webby3650]

1/8"? Are you sure? I see no way you will be able to move a stove onto that with out cracking it.

 

[mepellet]

Has anyone cut into their existing floor and recessed a hearth?

Just finished removing a layer of hardwood flooring and plywood down to existing subfloor on the floor joists.

One of the stove suppliers who came by to give us an estimate mentioned that a recessed hearth would be better for our situation because of the house traffic.

Exactly why we did it. Didn't want any or much of an elevation change between the hardwood flooring and the hearth area for any kid to trip on among other reasons.

We also visited a stone supplier and he too said a recessed hearth would be ideal for us.

The Stove guy said our current oak floor is 3/4" thick. He said to remove the floorboards down to the subfloor, add cement board and then tile ontop.

We removed hardwood flooring and layer of plywood & luan down to existing diagonal T&G board subfloor and put down a layer of 3/8" plywood on top of the T&G board subfloor and then a layer of 1/2" durock on top of that and then just put the tile down on top of that yesterday. Came out pretty good. Tiles are within 1/16" lower than the hardwood flooring. [/quote]

He wasn't 100% sure that the Jotuls only needed ember protection, but I believe they do. In the manual it states the following:

The Jotul F45 requires one of the following forms of hearth protection if not installed directly on concrete poured on earth:

1. Any UL/ULC Type I, Type II, or Warnock Hersey Listed Hearth board.
2. Any noncombustible material.

I'm thinking we could have the tile hearth just about level with the existing wood floor. We remove the existing floor down to the subfloor, install 1/2" durarock and then 1/4" tile on top of that.

Would the mortar bump up the tiles past the existing wood floor?

Any ideas on how to trim out the edge to make it look nice?

We like how the tile right up to the hardwood flooring looks.

 

[Holzstapel]

1/8"? Are you sure? I see no way you will be able to move a stove onto that with out cracking it.

This has crossed our minds.

The listing claims 1/8" thick, but now that you mention it, I thought the typical thickness of tiles was about 1/4".

We shall see once the tile arrives. Perhaps a small change in the design/layout will have to take place.