Regency vs Pacific Energy wood Insert

[cainsriver]

I am trying to decide wether to purchase a Regency HI2450 or a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 insert. Both are in metallic black. The Regency costs $1,000 more than the PE and the viewing glass is approximately 30 sq in larger and has a slightly larger fire box plus 3000 btu larger output. I am not sure what justify the greater cost unless it is a supply and demand or greater cost to manufacture. Any recommendations or points to consider. Thank you.

 

[begreen]

That's a little surprising. The T5 usually has a premium price due to the cast iron surround. How large of an area will the insert be heating? What will look the best and be sized properly for the area being heated?

 

[cainsriver]

The Regency also has a cast iron surround Hampton hi2450. 1200 ft2 (not counting unfinished basement) open concept, cathedral ceiling, 2 storey, lots of windows, built in 85, exterior wall heatilator type fireplace. Need something that looks good as it is in the living room.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I was thinking of the Hampton version being a better comparison, but it will be even more expensive.
Either insert will work but in your location with the high ceiling and all that glass, I would go large and make smaller fires in milder weather.

 

[cainsriver]

Thanks begreen. The $1000 difference was comparing the Hampton to the Alderlea. The next size up would be a PE Summit at 99,000 btu. I thought that would be too big given 1200 sq ft, but then again I have never had an insert. I have attached another pic so you can see the upstairs to the 2 bedrooms and bath. There are 2 fans in the cathedral ceiling which goes from 8’ high to 16’ high over a width of 13’. The open room with the fireplace is 13’ wide by 23’ long.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How well insulated is your home? That’s a lot of window.

 

[cainsriver]

6” wall insulation, 6” in attic and I assume 6” in the cathedral ceiling. The house is not air tight as it was built in 1985 by would have been to what ever standard of the day was.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think you could easily run the summit in that volume of room.

The upstairs may be hot, the fans will help with that, but heat rises.

 

[cainsriver]

The Alderlea then would be marginal in this application and the Summit is more than I need but you put less wood in it depending on the weather and provides some flexibility ?

 

[stoveliker]

And spend some money on the attic. 6" there is nothing. As heat rises,.there will be your biggest losses.

First, air seal (from the attic side) everywhere where walls reach the ceiling with spray can foam, all (electric) penetrations with silicone. Then add insulation so you reach R50 or so. 6" is r20-ish?

 

[begreen]

Thanks begreen. The $1000 difference was comparing the Hampton to the Alderlea. The next size up would be a PE Summit at 99,000 btu. I thought that would be too big given 1200 sq ft, but then again I have never had an insert. I have attached another pic so you can see the upstairs to the 2 bedrooms and bath. There are 2 fans in the cathedral ceiling which goes from 8’ high to 16’ high over a width of 13’. The open room with the fireplace is 13’ wide by 23’ long.

View attachment 310294

Both the Super and the Summit could do the job. The Super would be pushed harder than the bigger PE. I thought of recommending the Summit. It can run at a fairly wide range of loading. Member @Dix has been heating with the Super (the called the Pacific) insert in a cold part of Long Island for over a decade. And we had a member heating about the same sized area with a T5 freestander up in the Adirondacks.

Does the 1200 sq ft include both floors? How well insulated is the house? What is the size (btu output) of the current primary heating system? Is the goal to supplement the current system or to heat 24/7 entirely with wood?

 

[cainsriver]

Thanks for the insulation recommendation Stovelier. I will definitely follow thru on that. The tips on how to do it are appreciated.

Begreen the 1200 sq ft includes the upstairs. The btu output of the geothermal heat pump is 42,000 btu/hr. I am going to use the insert as supplemental heat plus primary heat during power outages. I live in the country and we can get 2-3 day outages so I need to be better prepared. Once no power for a week during a bad storm. Extreme weather events are more the norm these days as you know.

 

[begreen]

The Super is a good fit and choice for this requirement.

 

[Dix]

You rang? @begreen

Welcome to the Forums

My PE is still going strong, and next September it's 15 years since it was installed. Handles 1200 SF of this joint (paying homage to @BrotherBart ❤️‍🔥) in the coldest of weather (think 0F ) no problem. Handles the whole 2000 SF until it hits 25F or so, then the 13 kicks in (weird house layout), or I use the dino juice to supplement.

The extended front on the PE is a big plus, the fan is quiet, and I get 7 - 9 hours of burn time on a full load, and another 1-2 hours of useable heat.

A generator is a must in a prolonged power outage for maximum heat. Never had to use mine, but glad I have it

 

[cainsriver]

Thanks begreen for your recommendation. There’s many things to consider as I’ve learned here when picking out an insert.

 

[stoveliker]

Thanks for the insulation recommendation Stovelier. I will definitely follow thru on that. The tips on how to do it are appreciated.

There are quite a few YouTube videos of what to do. I pulled up the insulation (batts between the joists), sealed, put the batts down, and added (unfaced) batts 90 degrees rotated on top.
Blown in stuff has a way of going places.it should not go. Okay to use, but be aware.

Make sure any chimney pipe has a clearance of 2" to any combustible, and that includes fiberglass. Use sheet metal and silicone (=non-combustible) to close gaps in the ceiling around chimney pipes.

Close chases.(e.g. for ductwork). Many times they are left open, creating a square foot sized hole thru which your warmed air disappears.


All this sealing is also good for your stove; air rises in a home, as in a chimney. And you don't want lower pressure near your stove because there are holes thru which the air can rise and disappear into the attic. This could result in smoke roll out.
So, sealing the attic is good for heating costs, but also stove operation.

If you have soffit vents,.make sure to not obstruct them with the extra insulation; the air coming in there should be able to rise along the plywood on which the shingles are nailed.

And correct any electrical issue you run into as you're not going to want to mess up the insulation for that after you added all that. I found many issues (junctions not in boxes, fans mounted on non-fan boxes, poorly mounted boxes, wiring with damaged insulation, etc ).

/End of this tangential subject..

 

[cainsriver]

Thank you everyone so much! What a great forum. 👍👍👍
I feel better knowing now with confidence which insert to proceed with (PE Alderlea i.e. a dressed up Super); improve the ceiling insulation and how to go about it; install a generator and transfer switch. Lots to do but all necessary.

 

[Brawndo71]

Thank you everyone so much! What a great forum. 👍👍👍
I feel better knowing now with confidence which insert to proceed with (PE Alderlea i.e. a dressed up Super); improve the ceiling insulation and how to go about it; install a generator and transfer switch. Lots to do but all necessary.

What is installed in there now? A Heatilator ZC or full masonry fireplace?

 

[cainsriver]

It is a heatilator type made by Tweed Steel that was installed in 1985. The steel smoke shelf rotted out.

 

[Brawndo71]

I have a Heatliator ZC that I have to rip out. Similar to that in function. Have to redo the whole brick wall, likely with veneer and of course new chimney. Most homes in my subdivision have a full masonry fireplace, and could use an insert. No one even uses their fireplaces. I will just install a high eff ZC. $10k -15k total for the project. Good luck on yours.

 

[begreen]

I have a Heatliator ZC that I have to rip out. Similar to that in function. Have to redo the whole brick wall, likely with veneer and of course new chimney. Most homes in my subdivision have a full masonry fireplace, and could use an insert. No one even uses their fireplaces. I will just install a high eff ZC. $10k -15k total for the project. Good luck on yours.

If it is like this one, you may not need to rip it out. Often an insert can be installed in it with a full insulated liner. That is much less expensive and easier.

 

[VintageGal]

There are quite a few YouTube videos of what to do. I pulled up the insulation (batts between the joists), sealed, put the batts down, and added (unfaced) batts 90 degrees rotated on top.
Blown in stuff has a way of going places.it should not go. Okay to use, but be aware.

Make sure any chimney pipe has a clearance of 2" to any combustible, and that includes fiberglass. Use sheet metal and silicone (=non-combustible) to close gaps in the ceiling around chimney pipes.

Close chases.(e.g. for ductwork). Many times they are left open, creating a square foot sized hole thru which your warmed air disappears.


All this sealing is also good for your stove; air rises in a home, as in a chimney. And you don't want lower pressure near your stove because there are holes thru which the air can rise and disappear into the attic. This could result in smoke roll out.
So, sealing the attic is good for heating costs, but also stove operation.

If you have soffit vents,.make sure to not obstruct them with the extra insulation; the air coming in there should be able to rise along the plywood on which the shingles are nailed.

And correct any electrical issue you run into as you're not going to want to mess up the insulation for that after you added all that. I found many issues (junctions not in boxes, fans mounted on non-fan boxes, poorly mounted boxes, wiring with damaged insulation, etc ).

/End of this tangential subject..

What kind of "seal" application under the fiberglass batting?

 

[stoveliker]

What kind of "seal" application under the fiberglass batting?

polyurethane foam spray cans. The big blue or orange stores have them in the insulation aisle.

Wherever an internal or external wall reaches the ceiling to the attic, you'll see a top beam (horizontal 2x4). Often there is a 1/16-1/8" gap between the drywall and that top beam. That means that the heat that gets through your drywall can then easily convect up into the attic. Add the length of those up and you're easily getting a few square foot of open space towards the attic in a normal home.

Seal those with foam.

Seal all holes in the drywall (lights etc.) as well as the holes drilled in those top beams to drop down electrical. (Anything electrical, don't use flammable polyurethane foam, but use silicone caulk).

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for the insulation recommendation Stovelier. I will definitely follow thru on that. The tips on how to do it are appreciated.

Begreen the 1200 sq ft includes the upstairs. The btu output of the geothermal heat pump is 42,000 btu/hr. I am going to use the insert as supplemental heat plus primary heat during power outages. I live in the country and we can get 2-3 day outages so I need to be better prepared. Once no power for a week during a bad storm. Extreme weather events are more the norm these days as you know.

In the cathedral ceiling, you can't, Unless you install a rigid insulation under the existing interior surface, and install a new ceiling underneath that. Also in cathedral ceiling cavities, the insulation should not be run up to the underside of the deck, or the deck will rot from the inside out.

The only other way to add insulation to a cethedral ceiling is to tear off the roofing, and install insulation board over top of the decking, then install new roofing with a nailer or nail board on top. The insulation will have to be thick enough, to stop heat transfer from causing condensation on the underside.

You either have a ventilated roof system, or closed roof system that would make everything under the decking insulation, conditioned area, then no worries about rot.