Register fan

[wamj2008]

Hello, my wood stove is in my basement and I have a 6 x 10 register in the floor to help the heat rise. This is seemingly inadequate, so I'd like to get a 12 x 10 register, but most importantly would like to get a fan for the register. I have found some registers with integral fans, but the controls are on the top of the unit, so those are out of the question with a 1 year old and a 4 year old in the house. I have found Tjernlund products but they are only 4 x 10.

Does anyone know of a fan that I can mount to my joist underneath the register, on the basement side of the floor?

 

[begreen]

You're right, 6x10 is tiny. If possible go larger and span the gap between the joists. Something like a 16x 20 will perform better and shouldn't need a fan, especially if you can supplement with an open door at the top of the basement stairs. This floor register should be set in a sleeve that incorporates a fusible-link damper.

If you can post a sketch of the floor plans. Including stove and stairway locations. There may be a better way.

 

[wamj2008]

So the part of the house with a foundation is 24 x 36. There would be a sunroom extension on a slab, about 8 feet wide, on the left side, running the length of the house. Basement is pretty open. Stove sits basically right under the floor register. You'll see the old bay window in the upper left corner. Single pane, has storm window, will probably get the plastic. Would rather not have the basement door modified with kids in the house. I understand an open basement door really helps the heat move, but don't have that option during the day. The basement door will be left open at night when the kids are in bed, it will be safe to do then.

If I do a half door for the basement, the existing register may act as a cold air return, but then heat wouldn't really circulate. Other options are placing a cold air return grate on the floor in front of the window, so that cold air doesn't get much chance to circulate throughout the house. Another option is half door, with a cold air return grate in the lower half of the door. The idea is for the bedrooms to get radiant heat from the warm basement.

Really won't know the best method until it gets cold enough to maintain a fire and see how the heat circulates. Would really like to just find a fan to push the hot air through a 12 x 10 floor grate and go from there. Definitely open to any other options and experiences.

 

[JoeysDad]

So the part of the house with a foundation is 24 x 36. There would be a sunroom extension on a slab, about 8 feet wide, on the left side, running the length of the house. Basement is pretty open. Stove sits basically right under the floor register. You'll see the old bay window in the upper left corner. Single pane, has storm window, will probably get the plastic. Would rather not have the basement door modified with kids in the house. I understand an open basement door really helps the heat move, but don't have that option during the day. The basement door will be left open at night when the kids are in bed, it will be safe to do then.

If I do a half door for the basement, the existing register may act as a cold air return, but then heat wouldn't really circulate. Other options are placing a cold air return grate on the floor in front of the window, so that cold air doesn't get much chance to circulate throughout the house. Another option is half door, with a cold air return grate in the lower half of the door. The idea is for the bedrooms to get radiant heat from the warm basement.

Really won't know the best method until it gets cold enough to maintain a fire and see how the heat circulates. Would really like to just find a fan to push the hot air through a 12 x 10 floor grate and go from there. Definitely open to any other options and experiences.

I would contemplate using a gate at the top of the steps to the basement instead of altering the door. When the kids get older, simply remove the gate.

 

[wamj2008]

I considered that, and my wife is concerned they'll throw every thing in the house down the basement stairs. I can't say her concerns are unfounded. I was thinking of building a half door and putting in the return grate. I'd be concerned about the gate not being solid enough for them. I'm thinking that the open(ish) basement doorway concept will be the most economical, but I'd still like to have a fan option to really boost the airflow on the cold days (living in midcoast Maine.)

 

[Simonkenton]

In my house, the wood stove is on the first floor. I wanted to move some heat up to the second floor and I installed a 6 x 14 register in the ceiling/floor. Didn't do a thing.
So, you are thinking right to get a fan in there, or else, install a really big register.

 

[begreen]

I would contemplate using a gate at the top of the steps to the basement instead of altering the door. When the kids get older, simply remove the gate.

The basement door is in the right place. A gate would work or temporarily replace the basement door with a screen door or open up the door frame and put expanded metal over the openings? Not sure about the wife's concern but our kids lived in a 2 floor house with their bedrooms on the second floor. We never had an accident with the stairs and never had kids throwing stuff down the stairs to the basement.

 

[JoeysDad]

In my house, the wood stove is on the first floor. I wanted to move some heat up to the second floor and I installed a 6 x 14 register in the ceiling/floor. Didn't do a thing.
So, you are thinking right to get a fan in there, or else, install a really big register.

Big register in the floor = lots of unusable floorspace. Is there a way to put in a register in the ceiling of the basement and connect it to some duct work with an exit register in a first floor wall?

 

[begreen]

These big registers used to be common with the old gravity air coal systems. They were flush with the floor and cast iron. Still available. Of course kids can and will drop stuff down them.

 

[wamj2008]

Thanks for the heads up on a fusible link damper. That will definitely be installed. I do really appreciate all the suggestions. Still wondering if there are any fans that can be mounted to the joist, right under the fire damper?

 

[begreen]

Maybe you could try a 4-5", 120v, axial (muffin) fan? But I think it is not going to move the volume of heat you are looking for. 6x10 is bathroom vent size.

 

[wamj2008]

It's going to be a 12 x 10 before long. Will be ordering from Atlanta Supply Co. I'll have to see how things end up working out once we have a steady fire and it is cold outside. Low's in the 50's this week, so no need to maintain a fire.

 

[Rossco]

Yeah I have a tjernlund 10x4 fan in the hallway. It's feed by a 6" pipe that runs about 10ft in between the rafters. It use to run to a vent above the stove but I removed it when Inspected for the permit.

Edit: The pipe is 6" Gal and the fan sits in a proper register box. Conveniently 12" away from a receptacle. We use to use a timer and cycle 1/2hr on, 1/2 off but it ends up blowing cold air late in the old stoves burn.

I've seen 40C+ coming out with the temp gun.

The trick I think is to heat the pipe up. This then helps the already warm air to travel without loosing much heat. I might experiment with a loop set up to try and heat the air even more.

I don't really worry about it being a flame passage. I have a sprinkler system in the basement, also a Carbon Monoxide sensor next to the intake and in the hallway.

Iam however, interested in the fused damper thingy majig

Oh yeah and I tried the round 6" fan in the pipe before buying the Tjernlund unit. Didnt really impress

 

[begreen]

12 x 10 is only twice as large. If the joists are 16" OC I would go with a flush 14 x 18 or larger.
http://www.atlantasupply.com/cast-iron-grille.htm

 

[wamj2008]

Joists are 12" OC, only 10" of space between them, so unfortunately limited in that regard.

 

[begreen]

That's crazy. Our joist spacing for a larger, old farm house is double that. You could span two joists for a 24' x 24' or at least an 18' x 18" register. Still, I would make the basement door work. Kids grow up quickly.

 

[El Finko]

If I'm looking at the picture right, the stove is in the middle of the house?
If that's true then I'd cut smaller registers in each room around the perimeter of the house. Then your hot air rises in the middle and your cold air falls around the edges. Natural convection. Needs more fusible link dampers, though. But try it without a fan and you may find that you don't need one after all.
Are the basement walls finished our bare?

 

[wamj2008]

I'm thinking this may be my most realistic solution: (broken link removed to http://www.suncourt.com/EntreeAir.html)

Basement walls are bare, unfortunately. I have insulated my rim joists so I'm hoping that will retain a lot of heat. 2" rigid foam board will cover the exposed concrete on both the west (long side) and north (short side) sides of the house. There is a big concrete pad on the south end of the house, where the sunroom is. This leaves the walkout south side of the house exposed. It gets plenty of sun, when its shining. I'd like to put up more foam board along the wall on the inside but just don't have the cash right now. We'll probably add more dirt to the foundation next summer.

 

[Simonkenton]

What bgreen said. You double up a joist, skip a joist, and double up the next joist. You cut out 21 inches of the joist in the middle. You put in two little joist pieces, 22 1/2 inches long, running across to the two doubled joists, The loose ends of the joist you cut in two, you nail into the 22 1/2 inch little joists pieces. This is standard construction technique, and is up to code.
You have just made a "box" that is 22 1/2 inches wide by 18 inches long. Put an 18 x 18 register in there.

If that doesn't move enough air, just get a Kmart floor fan for 15 bucks, and mount it, onto the joists below the register, where it is parallel to the floor, blowing up. You don't need a special-designed duct fan to move hot air through a register. Even better, in 5 years, if the cheapo fan conks out, you replace it for 15 bucks.

As I said above, a 6 x 16 register is worthless, but an 18 x 18 register with a fan below it is going to move some air!

 

[Rossco]

What bgreen said. You double up a joist, skip a joist, and double up the next joist. You cut out 21 inches of the joist in the middle. You put in two little joist pieces, 22 1/2 inches long, running across to the two doubled joists, The loose ends of the joist you cut in two, you nail into the 22 1/2 inch little joists pieces. This is standard construction technique, and is up to code.
You have just made a "box" that is 22 1/2 inches wide by 18 inches long. Put an 18 x 18 register in there.

If that doesn't move enough air, just get a Kmart floor fan for 15 bucks, and mount it, onto the joists below the register, where it is parallel to the floor, blowing up. You don't need a special-designed duct fan to move hot air through a register.

Yeah I don't know about that. I tried the fan stand alone in a register hole and it just blows cool air. The trick is a heat sink approach.

Chopping into floor joist sound like trouble to me. Skill saw and a keen eye gets a register hole in 30 seconds.

Bet that K-Mart fan sounds like a jet engine. Get what you paid for.

Just my 2c.

EDIT: Don't just take my word for it.

The fan.



Loaded the BK this morning @ 9. Load of 'Instant chimney Fire' Pine. Shut it down, Left the house, retuned about 45 mins ago, turned the stove up to get the fire going.



That's 30C. Like I said, av seen 40C out of it.

The 6" pipe runs about 8' south of the register and exits above my Furnace cold air duct. Big heat sink that metal furnace duct.

 

[Simonkenton]

I am an experienced carpenter, and have built 3 houses, turn-key, by myself. So cutting into a joist is no big deal for me. I can see where it might intimidate someone not so experienced.
The KMart fan sound like a jet engine? No it doesn't, it isn't very noisy. Every night in the summer I run one or two of 'em in my bedroom. Bedroom is on the second floor, I put them in a window blowing out, and open 3 windows downstairs. Cool air is sucked into the house all night, and hot air is blown out the windows upstairs. Cool the house down to 68 degrees, shut the house up in the morning, don't need A/C. This is in the cool NC mountains.

I can run two of these fans in my bedroom, and you say they will sound like a jet engine in your basement? That is ridiculous.
As for, "You get what you pay for" well, maybe. I helped my neighbor build a big 1,900 sq foot log house. Tom liked complicated stuff. To cool his house down in the summer, he bought two fans on line for $500. We put a "box" in the top of the gable end of his house, where the cathedral ceiling was. These two fans were thermostat controlled, about 18 feet off the floor of the living room with the big cathedral ceiling.
The box we build was 30 inches long and 15 inches high, the fans were about 15 inch diameter. To keep bugs from coming in in the daytime, there were louvers on the outside that closed automatically when the fans shut off.
Tom spent about $300 in additional materials and labor to get these fans installed, total about $800.

The fans worked well for about a year, and then they conked out. The company that sold the fans was out of business.

Before Tom and I began working on this fan install, I told Tom how I put a $15 Kmart fan in the bedroom window at night, worked great. Tom was not interested in a Kmart window fan.

Tom got what he paid for, a couple of $800 fans that didn't work. Today, Tom has a 15 buck Kmart fan in the window of his upstairs bedroom. And, in the winter, he loses all kinds of heat, through those metal louvers on the doomed cathedral ceiling fan project.
Never forget the Great Axiom of Engineering, "Simple is better than complicated."

Also, you say the fan will blow cool air? That assertion is ridiculous. The fan will be mounted in the ceiling of your basement, where the wood stove is. The basement ceiling is where the hottest air in the house is, the fan must, and will, blow very warm air.

Good luck with your project, sorry I can't help you, looks like you and I are on different wavelengths.

 

[Rossco]

I am an experienced carpenter, and have built 3 houses, turn-key, by myself. So cutting into a joist is no big deal for me. I can see where it might intimidate someone not so experienced.
The KMart fan sound like a jet engine? No it doesn't, it isn't very noisy. Every night in the summer I run one or two of 'em in my bedroom. Bedroom is on the second floor, I put them in a window blowing out, and open 3 windows downstairs. Cool air is sucked into the house all night, and hot air is blown out the windows upstairs. Cool the house down to 68 degrees, shut the house up in the morning, don't need A/C. This is in the cool NC mountains.

I can run two of these fans in my bedroom, and you say they will sound like a jet engine in your basement? That is ridiculous.

Also, you say the fan will blow cool air? That assertion is ridiculous. The fan will be mounted in the ceiling of your basement, where the wood stove is. The basement ceiling is where the hottest air in the house is, the fan must, and will, blow very warm air.

Good luck with your project, sorry I can't help you, looks like you and I are on different wavelengths.

Hey you took my post the wrong way. That's ok. The OP wanted to know about a register fan and I posted my info is all.

I was talking about the Tjernlund fan blowing luke warm air when just in a register hole. I even tried it right above the stove. Must be the rapid movement of air creating a cooler effect?

My projects are complete regarding the air flow around the house. My fan looks like a furnace duct. Blends in lovely. People even comment saying 'Dam your forced air blows hot'

EDIT: Man you keep adding to your original post something chronic. Let it go

Post some pics up with and all that fancy heat gun stuff. People on here like real data.

 

[Rossco]

I am an experienced carpenter, and have built 3 houses, turn-key, by myself. So cutting into a joist is no big deal for me. I can see where it might intimidate someone not so experienced.
The KMart fan sound like a jet engine? No it doesn't, it isn't very noisy. Every night in the summer I run one or two of 'em in my bedroom. Bedroom is on the second floor, I put them in a window blowing out, and open 3 windows downstairs. Cool air is sucked into the house all night, and hot air is blown out the windows upstairs. Cool the house down to 68 degrees, shut the house up in the morning, don't need A/C. This is in the cool NC mountains.

I can run two of these fans in my bedroom, and you say they will sound like a jet engine in your basement? That is ridiculous.
As for, "You get what you pay for" well, maybe. I helped my neighbor build a big 1,900 sq foot log house. Tom liked complicated stuff. To cool his house down in the summer, he bought two fans on line for $500. We put a "box" in the top of the gable end of his house, where the cathedral ceiling was. These two fans were thermostat controlled, about 18 feet off the floor of the living room with the big cathedral ceiling.
The box we build was 30 inches long and 15 inches high, the fans were about 15 inch diameter. To keep bugs from coming in in the daytime, there were louvers on the outside that closed automatically when the fans shut off.
Tom spent about $300 in additional materials and labor to get these fans installed, total about $800.

The fans worked well for about a year, and then they conked out. The company that sold the fans was out of business.

Before Tom and I began working on this fan install, I told Tom how I put a $15 Kmart fan in the bedroom window at night, worked great. Tom was not interested in a Kmart window fan.

Tom got what he paid for, a couple of $800 fans that didn't work. Today, Tom has a 15 buck Kmart fan in the window of his upstairs bedroom. And, in the winter, he loses all kinds of heat, through those metal louvers on the doomed cathedral ceiling fan project.
Never forget the Great Axiom of Engineering, "Simple is better than complicated."

Also, you say the fan will blow cool air? That assertion is ridiculous. The fan will be mounted in the ceiling of your basement, where the wood stove is. The basement ceiling is where the hottest air in the house is, the fan must, and will, blow very warm air.

Good luck with your project, sorry I can't help you, looks like you and I are on different wavelengths.

click 'Expand'

 

[Simonkenton]

Rossco: If you are not interested in my advice, based on my extensive experience in these subjects, which, obviously exceeds yours, please feel free to ignore it.

 

[Rossco]

Rossco: If you are not interested in my advice, based on my extensive experience in these subjects, which, obviously exceeds yours, please feel free to ignore it.

Yeah for sure. I didn't mean to create any bad vibe. I was also a little hasty about condemning the K-Mart fan. All $15 floor fans av ever owned have been ..... Garbage .. For this I apologies.

But back on topic here. Your fans, Toms fans and that last huge post have 100% nothing to do with drawing heat through a register. It's all about cooling your home and Tim's. Fans work great at cooling stuff. As evident by you post.

Your advice is great (Wish we were buddy's as I need a wood shed building)

But unless you can show some data that blowing air from the basement floor, through a hole in the basement ceiling works then its just another 'Maybe' - 'Should' - 'Would' - 'Can' post.

Don't take it the wrong way.