Relocating the flu

[taps]

Hey guys,
New to the site. Just picked up a Fisher free standing stove about 18 wide and 36 inches deep 31 inches tall. I have a question, right now the stove is set up with a 6 inches exhaut collar on the back of the stove. could I close up that hole and exhaust out of the top rear of the unit with the same size hole. I would do this because the unit being 36 inches deep with a rear flue elbow the unit is pushed off the rear masonary fireplace wall and additional 10-12 inches so the front legs sticks out 46+- inches and the hearth isn't deep enough to support the front legs. If I cut a hole in the top I can recess the stove so that the front legs will land on the hearth. Is it plausible?? will the smoke/burn pattern be affected?
Will my house fill up with smoke? I will add 6 inch black pipe to the new hole up the chimmney about 4 feet. The chimmney and fireplace is in good condition and is presently used weekly.
Thanks.
TAPS

 

[elkimmeg]

Can the good folks of the forum please give the guy some guidence. Seems enough like a nice guy so I don't want to gewt started.
I have to ask about the thought process before purchasing this stove. Did you bring along a ruler

 

[joshuaviktor]

Baffle plate, smoke path, secondary burn, airwash, proper draft. All of these factors and more are considered by the designers of stoves long before they actually build the sucker. Now some of these might not apply to you, i.e., if there is no glass door or viewing area airwash don't mean squat. HOWEVER some of them are universal. Draft, for instance. If you relocate the flue, you totally change the draft of the stove. Unless you have a good supercomputer and a team of programmers to model the draft path, don't do it. Of course, if you have the above equipment, throw the fisher my way, and buy yourself a custom masonry fireplace, cause you could afford it.

Seriously, think about building the hearth up to meet the stove. Please feel free to place a picture of your hearth, several if possible, including measurements, and pics of the stove. Several extremely competent people are excellent at making suggestions to at least start you down the correct path.

This is not to say you did something wrong. Just that there might be a different option for you to consider before getting out the welding tools.

Good luck,

Joshua

 

[Corey]

Well, since you are asking for opinions I am going to have to respectfully disagree with joshuaviktor. I don't believe you need supercomputers, slide rules, a PhD in "woodburningology" or anything else of the sort. What you will need are a pair of eyes, pencil, and a bit of enginuity.

I reworked my "brand X" stove from a 80's "air tight" design with a rectangular flue opening that simply slid into the fireplace to a modern "secondary burn" style stove that accepts a standard 6" flue. I didn't have to touch a supercomputer or really even kill too many brain cells to come up with a design. What I did do was to go and look at stoves that were probably designed by professionals with supercoputers and thousands of hours of burn tests, then adapt that design to my stove. From there it is just cutting steel and laying some respectable welding beads. If you are comfortable with that part, it shouldn't be much trouble to convert the stove.

If you have a chance to look at similar stoves which top vent, that will give you a good idea of what you are up against.

Corey

 

[elkimmeg]

Lets say one can re-engineere his stove, modify the draft flow and baflet plate. Before all this effort is done maybe one should figure if it can be permitted and installed

1. Is the stove UL listed? if you modify the stove it loses it listing ? If un-listed cannot be permitted and legally installed? Can it be if modified ?

2. Even with modification a certaint amount of air space is need for air flow and heat dissipation Putting a part in the fireplace opening, flush against the bricks is not the greatest formular of heat dissipation.

3. I will add 6 inch black pipe to the new hole up the chimmney about 4 feet. What's wrong this this? First of all There is the cross-sectional code to deal with. If your chimney is exposed to the outside and of normal construction 8/12 or 12/12 clay flues a full liner is required by code, Second connector pipe cannot act as the chimney that 4' lenght hase to be weather resistant and not rust out, stainless steel will satisfy code.

4. Clearances to combustiables and Hearth extention. Jiust getting it on the hearth is not enough you has to have a noncombustiable, heat resistant protection x distance around the stove and 16" or more infront of the loading door.

Conclusion: They person you should be asking these guestions to is the guy that inspects and approves your stove installation. Get a hold of your building of fire inspectors. In my town I would not even issue a permit for an un listed stove neve rmind modified, Code requires them to be labled and listed. I hope your neighbors do not live too close, when you get that smoke polutting belching beast going. There was a reason the EPA established mandates, We as a civilization,, must get away from the scortched earth phyolosiphy. There is a way to improve the air control of that stove install a gasket in the door cavity which also can improve the amount of polution if one leaves some combustion air to feed the burn. All of what I said should have been planned and thought out before purchasing the stove. You can end up with a stove, that can not legally be installed. Not only did you pay some money, now you are left selling an illegal stove??? that you now know is as such.
If you modify the stove you are making it more non conforming? Should you have an incident with that stove that you modified, boy will you have some explaining to your insurance company. Actually you have none. They will dictate to you whether they will cover the damages. Un permitted, modified, Clearances to combustiables, issues. What do you thing your chances are of getting a full settlement?

 

[joshuaviktor]

Ok, you've gotten the gamut of responses. Some might call it the gauntlet. I am an amateur with a yen to learn, so I'm cautious, and moving slowly, in well-established paths.

Cozy heat is a guy who's apparently good with a welding machine, and an engineering perspective. "Find what works, copy it, and go with it."

Elk is a town building inspector who is conservative, careful, and knowledgeable. He will not endorse unsafe practices, "out of the box" solutions that are WAY out of the box, or things that are problematic now or in the future.

Everybody's points are valid. (All right, mine is valid only on the top of my head, but it's still valid!) Anyway, just understand that although it might work to relocate the flue, especially if you do as Cozy heat suggests and check other working designs. On the other hand, realize that Elk also has a valid point. Please believe me when I tell you that insurance companies are not out there to hand out money. In Louisiana, where I just left, my littlest boys' grandma just got her house destroyed by Katrina. Homeowners paid the note and gave them approx 20k. Flood insurance, with a much higher payoff, gave them nothing. It was "storm surge" not floodwaters. Yeah right. You got 20 feet of water in the house for a month, what the h#%%^$# do you call it? You get my point?

If you do chose to relocate the flue, send some pictures. We will answer any questions as best we can, and help as best we can, but my suggestion is still to build up the hearth.

Joshua

 

[taps]

Thanks everyone for the feed back,
Just a few notes to clear things up a bit.
First I relocated the stove from my friends house in New Hampshire. He never used it since he bought the house one year ago. So it cost me nothing The original owners told him he used it all winter to heat his house. I am assuming that it still works its never been touched since.
Second the stove is most likely from the early 80's I'm guessing cause that's when his house was built. The stove in question is a step type (the front half is lower then the back half) There is no baffle inside this unit this is just a rectangular steel box filled with fire bricks an a 6 inch hole out the back for a flue to connect to. I believe it is an air tight unit complete with missing door gasket ( I will replace if this works.) the door also has 2 air control screws to allow for burn control. As for UL, I don't believe they stamped this unit although I am not 100% sure.
Also when I talk about recessing the unit into the existing fireplace I would of course leave at least 3 inches for air circulation around back side between the stove and the rear fireplace fire bricks. That would still give me enough room to land the legs on the hearth. I forgot to mention that my hearth is 12 inches off the floor so building up the hearth would be difficult.
Thanks everyone and Happy new year
see the attatched pix

 

[joshuaviktor]

Well said! MAkes a lot of sense, although a 12 inch hearth is very buildable (if that is a word). Um, I can't see the pic. Is it me? Or can anyone see it?

Joshua

 

[Corey]

Joshua

Your earlier post is a good summary of the whole situation. Good Job. Also, I can't see the picture either.

Corey

 

[elkimmeg]

You just described the baby bear fisher stove. The Ul tag if it is new enough, will be on the lower back. The door was never gasketed
but groved to fit one. If no sign of the Manufactures tag then it was built prior to mandatory listings of 1979. On the loading door, even if you are a foot high 16" of non combustiable surface has to be in front. You could get a hearth extention. Not much to these stoves check all the welds for cracks or breakes. Not a bad stove and it does throw a good amount of heat.

 

[taps]

I had to shrink the pix to fit your format.
Let me know what you think
TAPS

 

[taps]

more pix

 

[taps]

hey now