Remodel/Installation advice

[TreeFeller]

Hey guys, I recently purchased my first home and want to install a wood burning stove. The house came with a cheap zero clearance fire place that was not only inefficient but also unsafe. After removing the fire place and looking at the chimney I noticed it wasn't up to code and was dangerously close to combustibles that showed signs of heat damage. I really want to put a wood burning stove in here but i need some input before I start.

In order to achieve minimum clearances on the back of the stove I will have to modify the hearth. I will most likely remove the current hearth and build a new one that is lower to the ground rather than raised. Our living room is not all that big so I want to make the stove as unintrusive as possible. After I complete the hearth I plan on running the chimney up for a few feet before going through the wall and exiting through the existing chase. Any recommendations on how high I should go with the stove pipe before elbowing into the chase? Do you think a top exit stove would be the most ideal? If so do you have any recommendations for an efficient medium sized stove that has low clearances particularly behind the stove?

Depending on how high I go with the stove pipe I may have to remove or relocate the mantle which will leave another big hole in the existing stone. Because of this I may be better off removing all of the existing stone and starting from scratch? I'm not a mason so I'm unsure how hard it'd be to match the existing stone. This is a lot of information but any input will be appreciated. What would you do if this was your project?

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Would a rear-vent freestanding stove not work here, especially if the plan is to lower the hearth? It would connect to an insulated liner running up the current chimney. That should come in at a lower cost, easier cleaning and improved draft.

 

[bholler]

Welcome. Would a rear-vent freestanding stove not work here, especially if the plan is to lower the hearth? It would connect to an insulated liner running up the current chimney. That should come in at a lower cost, easier cleaning and improved draft.

The op already stated that the current chimney has clearance issues so no you cannot do that at all. It needs taken out and replaced.

 

[begreen]

Obviously I'm missing something here. What can you not do? Why would the chimney and hearth not be safe with a full insulated liner? Seems the mantra has been to assume that most chimneys have clearance issues.

 

[bholler]

Obviously I'm missing something here. What can you not do? Why would the chimney and hearth not be safe with a full insulated liner? Seems the mantra has been to assume that most chimneys have clearance issues.

This is a prefab chimney the insulation is not at all rated to take care of lack of clearances in a prefab I have absolutely never seen that claimed anywhere. It is meant to give you zero clearance to wood in contact with the outside of a masonry chimney. Especially if there is already heat damage like the op says it needs to be replaced. You really don't seem to be at all concerned about paying attention to listings when it comes to prefabs. Why is that?

 

[begreen]

I suggested installing an insulated lining to get around the stated shortcomings of the current setup. Why would this not work?

 

[begreen]

You really don't seem to be at all concerned about paying attention to listings when it comes to prefabs. Why is that?

That is an unnecessary and incorrect statement.

 

[TreeFeller]

I think I will have to replace the chimney. Not sure if I'll be able to use any of it or not. But it'll have to be removed so I can do some work and achieve those clearances. I was steering away from rear venting stoves because I was told they have more draft issues than top venting. Any truth in that? Another benefit of the top vent is that it'd help heat the room more. But in this case a rear venting stove may be ideal. Either way I'll need to replace the chimney

 

[TreeFeller]

Obviously I'm missing something here. What can you not do? Why would the chimney and hearth not be safe with a full insulated liner? Seems the mantra has been to assume that most chimneys have clearance issues.

It almost looked like the outer wall of the chimney had separated somewhere in the middle. I won't be able to tell until I really dive in there

 

[begreen]

It almost looked like the outer wall of the chimney had separated somewhere in the middle. I won't be able to tell until I really dive in there

Well, that is not good.

I think I will have to replace the chimney. Not sure if I'll be able to use any of it or not. But it'll have to be removed so I can do some work and achieve those clearances. I was steering away from rear venting stoves because I was told they have more draft issues than top venting. Any truth in that? Another benefit of the top vent is that it'd help heat the room more. But in this case a rear venting stove may be ideal. Either way I'll need to replace the chimney

Assuming you have to replace the chimney and can't drop an insulated liner down it due to chimney defects, have you thought about other options? What about replacing the chimney with class A pipe straight up?

Rear vent installations often work great if there is adequate chimney height. With a rear vent there is more of the stove in the room. That usually leads to better heating. Tucking the stove (top vent) has clearance issues that may make it impossible to do in the current setup. There are combustibles in the framing of the chase that need to be considered. By moving the stove out onto the hearth, the main concern with a rear-vent becomes the clearance of the horiz. connector to the nearest combustible. Of course the stove's clearances to the mantel also need to be considered and it may need shielding.

 

[bholler]

I suggested installing an insulated lining to get around the stated shortcomings of the current setup. Why would this not work?

Because an insulated liner is not tested or listed to correct those shortcomings.

That is an unnecessary and incorrect statement.

I am sorry but I would not say it is incorrect you have given advice ignoring the applicable listings over and over when it comes to zeroclearnce units. And I really don't understand why because when it comes to everything else you are right on when it comes to code and safety.

Rear vent installations often work great if there is adequate chimney height. With a rear vent there is more of the stove in the room. That usually leads to better heating. Tucking the stove (top vent) has clearance issues that may make it impossible to do in the current setup. There are combustibles in the framing of the chase that need to be considered. By moving the stove out onto the hearth, the main concern with a rear-vent becomes the clearance of the horiz. connector to the nearest combustible. Of course the stove's clearances to the mantel also need to be considered and it may need shielding.

I totally agree that is what I would probably recommend as well

 

[bholler]

But in this case a rear venting stove may be ideal. Either way I'll need to replace the chimney

I agree wit hwhat bg said here rear vent can work just fine as long as you have enough height. It will certainly be the easiest option.

 

[TreeFeller]

Well, that is not good.

Assuming you have to replace the chimney and can't drop an insulated liner down it due to chimney defects, have you thought about other options? What about replacing the chimney with class A pipe straight up?

Rear vent installations often work great if there is adequate chimney height. With a rear vent there is more of the stove in the room. That usually leads to better heating. Tucking the stove (top vent) has clearance issues that may make it impossible to do in the current setup. There are combustibles in the framing of the chase that need to be considered. By moving the stove out onto the hearth, the main concern with a rear-vent becomes the clearance of the horiz. connector to the nearest combustible. Of course the stove's clearances to the mantel also need to be considered and it may need shielding.

Replacing with class A pipe is kind of what I was leaning towards. It won't be cheap but it will be safe. It would be nice to tuck a top vent in the existing cavity but the space is too small to accommodate even the smallest of stoves.
I'm not too familiar with rear venting stoves. How would You join the horizontal section to the vertical section? Would I need to support the horizontal section or would it run to a T joint that rests on the ground?

 

[bholler]

How would You join the horizontal section to the vertical section? Would I need to support the horizontal section or would it run to a T joint that rests on the ground?

They make tees and tee supports for that purpose. Depending on how much horizontal run you have it may need support But probably not and you want to keep that run as short as possible for performance reasons also.

 

[TreeFeller]

Thanks for all of the input, it was really helpful. Do you have any recommendations on medium sized rear venting stoves? Particularly ones with lower clearances? Seems like they are a little harder to find than top venting units.

 

[Poindexter]

I am highly suspicious all that stone work is just a single layer of veneer stone a 48" wide section of plywood.

I would want to look at it a lot closer before I started swinging a sledgehammer, but pulling all that rock off and tugging out plywood could be a ten minute job, after two hours of setup so you can clean up easy afterwards.

Is the existing chimney inside or outside the insulation envelope?

 

[bholler]

I am highly suspicious all that stone work is just a single layer of veneer stone a 48" wide section of plywood.

Yes I assume that it is. But I am not understanding why you think it needs to come down.

 

[Poindexter]

Yes I assume that it is. But I am not understanding why you think it needs to come down.

I dont know that it does or does not need to come down. I observe that it probably could come down easily. Taking it out may or may not open up a desirable option. Havent seen a sketch of the floor plan and dont know where the existing chimney pierces the insulation.

 

[bholler]

I dont know that it does or does not need to come down. I observe that it probably could come down easily. Taking it out may or may not open up a desirable option. Havent seen a sketch of the floor plan and dont know where the existing chimney pierces the insulation.

ok fair enough just wasnt sure what you were saying

 

[TreeFeller]

I am highly suspicious all that stone work is just a single layer of veneer stone a 48" wide section of plywood.

I would want to look at it a lot closer before I started swinging a sledgehammer, but pulling all that rock off and tugging out plywood could be a ten minute job, after two hours of setup so you can clean up easy afterwards.

Is the existing chimney inside or outside the insulation envelope?

The stone is just a single layer of veneer. It would definitely come down easily and eventually I hope to replace it with something nicer. The chimney is running through a chase, not sure if that's what your asking. The chase is at least partly insulated but I can't see the entire thing. About 3.5' up there is sheet rock blocking off the rest of the chase and I haven't removed it yet. Didn't want to swing the sledge before doing some research