Renewables in a hurricane

[Seasoned Oak]

The solar industry is starting to assess what it will take to rewire PR with an alternative to a centralized grid. Same for the US Virgin Islands.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-solar-industry-wants-to-help-puerto-rico#gs.dBc2MvU

In many ways this is a "good news " story. What got destroyed was barely adequate to begin with. Doing the whole island over the way it was will only last till the next big storm. Before the storm ,no one was in a hurry to loan any more money to PR ,now they will get lots of grants to do it right , i hope. Whatever goes in will have to be storm proof to some extent. More small rainwater cisterns would be nice too.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

More about optics than need. It just makes one less thing to blame on the US govt for PRs internal problems with distribution. Im betting lifting the rule will make zero difference since the port is already clogged with goods.

Yes, at the very least it was extremely poor optics for a President to say "“We have a lot of shippers and a lot of people and a lot of people that work in the shipping industry that don’t want the Jones Act lifted." To protect peoples profit interests in the face of desperate and dying people is unconscionable. But it was his first instinct.

The goal in a crisis such as this is to get the needed equipment and supplies on site clearing roads, bringing food, fuel and water as soon as possible. You don't want to prevent that road grader sitting on a ship in nearby Grenada from helping to clear the roads simply because the vessel it's sitting on happens to be registered in Greece (or wherever). The goods couldn't even get to the desperate people because the roads needed clearing.

How much of a difference lifting the Jones Act sooner would have made, I don't know. But that's not the kind of decision that requires hesitation.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Woody , im leaving politics out of the discussion ,and for good reason . Both sides think the other side is destroying the country and to a certain degree ,both sides are right .

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Woody , im leaving politics out of the discussion ,and for good reason . Both sides think the other side is destroying the country and to a certain degree ,both sides are right .

That's a very political statement because it tries to excuse what happened by claiming both sides are equally bad. I prefer to not deal in broad sweeping generalities but I can understand why you don't want to discuss specifics in this case.

 

[begreen]

Hospitals have be badly hit if not totally devastated in both PR and the Virgin Islands. As they are rebuilt, this seems like a good first place to employ rooftop solar with tesla powerwalls in addition to generator backup.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Hospitals have be badly hit if not totally devastated in both PR and the Virgin Islands. As they are rebuilt, this seems like a good first place to employ rooftop solar with tesla powerwalls in addition to generator backup.

Have to figure out a way to keep the roof on in a cat 5 storm so the solar panels stay put as well. Or make them easy to disconnect to take em down if a big storm is approaching. Its not that often a cat 5 storm does a direct hit.

 

[begreen]

Yes, they'd need a reinforced mounting system which is more practical than a hospital taking in 20+ panels.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Yes, they'd need a reinforced mounting system which is more practical than a hospital taking in 20+ panels.

May get smashed by coconuts flying by at 150MPH .

 

[begreen]

Yes, it would be good to have a few spare panels inside and keep tall palm trees away from the building.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

That's a very political statement because it tries to excuse what happened by claiming both sides are equally bad. I prefer to not deal in broad sweeping generalities but I can understand why you don't want to discuss specifics in this case.

Not sure if yur around long enough to remember woody but spouting political opinions is the quickest way to get a thread shut down here on hearth ,no matter which side yur on. We used to have something called the ash can but even that got too "heated" so it was just relegated to the history bin as a lost cause. With good reason because debating politics like religion is a sure way to bring conflict between friends. Helps us remain friends here.

 

[Where2]

Yes, they'd need a reinforced mounting system which is more practical than a hospital taking in 20+ panels.

A reinforced mounting system on a commercial building is not all that complicated, just hire a Structural PE, and pay them for their work product. My array has stamped engineering plans with a design uplift and down force calculations to survive a 3 second gust of 170mph. If you want an array to survive 185mph or 200mph gusts, all it takes is $$$ to design the appropriate rack system to support the array.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

As important as it is to keep the panels in place i can just just imaging what is being carried in the wind that will smash just about any panel if its traveling at 100+ MPH. For this particular storm i think taking them down would have been the only option to preserve them.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Have to figure out a way to keep the roof on in a cat 5 storm so the solar panels stay put as well. Or make them easy to disconnect to take em down if a big storm is approaching. Its not that often a cat 5 storm does a direct hit.

Not much survives a direct hit from a powerful cat 5 storm, even the non-solar electrical infrastructure (including fossil fuel generation) was taken out by the recent direct hit. I would make the case that direct hits are rare enough and cover a narrow enough swath that it's uneconomic to design buildings and infrastructure to handle the worst kind of direct hit. Everything would end up looking like military bunkers!

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

As important as it is to keep the panels in place i can just just imaging what is being carried in the wind that will smash just about any panel if its traveling at 100+ MPH. For this particular storm i think taking them down would have been the only option to preserve them.

Tesla has demonstrated that their solar roof shingles can withstand direct hits from large hail stones traveling in excess of 100 mph. That's enough to total a vehicle so the glass shingles are pretty tough.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I would make the case that direct hits are rare enough and cover a narrow enough swath that it's uneconomic to design buildings and infrastructure to handle the worst kind of direct hit. Everything would end up looking like military bunkers!

About 30 yrs i think since they had the last one . Certainly you want any residential or business structure would have an expected life span of 50 to 100 yrs certainly longer than 30 yrs . Plus factor in what the GW people are saying an they may be a lot more frequent and stronger.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If that Tony Seba video is correct it may be a big waste of time and money to rebuild PR eLectrical grid outside.the capitol city.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

About 30 yrs i think since they had the last one

Nope. In recorded history there has only been one other Cat. 5 hurricane in PR. That was in 1928, almost 90 years ago. I believe it's wise to design and build for extreme weather but not for direct hits of category 5 hurricanes. That would not be cost effective to do in all hurricane regions.

 

[begreen]

More information on Puerto Rico's power grid issues. While some solar installations were devastated, one survived intact. It was engineered and built to withstand a cat 5 storm and it did.
https://earther.com/puerto-rico-has-a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-to-ret-1819143446
Musk believes Tesla can be part of the solution
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41524220

 

[Seasoned Oak]

There you go ,even though they dont get cat 5 hurricanes that often there's nothing preventing another one next year or any year. building the same old way is a waste. No mater who pays for it.

 

[Zack R]

Commercial scale wind turbines are built to survive hurricane force winds. Each model has a "survival cutout" speed where the blades pitch to feather and the machine rides out the storm. Once the wind drops back into the operating range for a pre determined amount of time it will adjust the blade pitch and resume power production.

http://www.businessinsider.com/texa...-dodged-a-bullet-with-hurricane-harvey-2017-9

Source: I have 10+ years experience in the wind energy field and have visited wind farms in southern Texas.