Replacing a Better n Bens fireplace insert questions

[Vulcan420]

A few years ago I purchased a house with a brick fireplace and a better n bens woodstove that has a large metal plate at the back that blocks the fireplace opening and the square stove sticks out from that 2 ft. The fireplace opening is 38"w x 27"h. This is in my walkout basement which is a family rm. 2 years ago I had a chimney sweep clean the chimney though I think he was a fly-by-nighter as he did everything from the roof and never came in the house and didn't clean the fireplace. Whenever it rains or is really humid the whole house reaks intensly of creosote. It is so bad downstairs that you just can't even stay down there. I pulled the stove out and found that there is no damper in the fireplace - it long ago rotted out and its remains removed I guess. There is no cap on the chimney. The stove itself has no metal flue - just a 6" hole in the back where the damper is and smoke goes into the fireplace. The whole inside of the fireplace itself looked like someone covered it with a layer of roofing cement and burnt toast and there was a pile of black ash a couple inches deep on the bottom. The chimney was actually not quite as bad. I spent a day cleaning the fireplace but it is still covered with black into the pores of the brick and mortar. I want to replace the better n bens with a new insert with a blower but I have a couple of basic questions. First, after looking at various brands of inserts I notice that although they are way more expensive than I had imagined, their interior volume is less than the better n bens is at 13"w x 16"h x 24" d. Is this due to improved efficiency and nothing to worry about or do I need to find an insert with roughly the same volume in order to get about the same amount of heat? I don't want to spend what I consider a lot of money only to wind up with decreased heating capacity. Secondly, should I install stainless stove pipe inside my chimney? - my fireplace is in the basement of a cape so the chimney is 3 stories tall and the expense of having stainless flue pipe installed is more than I can afford right now. The flue pipe is square, about 8", seems to be in good condition and the stove/fireplace get good draw. My plan was just to get the chimney cleaned, install a chimney cap and install a new insert myself. So my 3 issues are: 1 - firebox volume, 2 - creosote smell problem and 3 - do I need to have stove pipe installed inside the chimney. I would appreciate any info on the 3 issues.

 

[jabush]

Welcome to the group!
Personally I would line the chimney before I bought a new stove.
From what you are describing, your existing setup is really unsafe. This is beyond the fact that your "sweep" brushed everything down the chimney and left it behind the stove to catch fire. Your damper plate is gone and is allowing the chimney to really backdraft into the fireplace and around the stove, which is causing the smell. Also, there should be stovepipe coming off the back of the stove to a 90 degree (stainless) bend and up (through a blockoff plate) to the flu (or liner). I'm actually surprised all the buildup behind the stove didn't ignite when the stove was burning. Sounds like you lucked out this past winter.
Call or ask around to find a competent sweep or two to take a look at your setup and give you an estmate on the liner. If need be, you can still burn the B&B;while saving for a new(er) stove. And your old stove will burn totally diferent (in a good way) when venting into a fully lined chimney.
Invest in the safety of your setup first...then worry about a new stove.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

Yes, newer stoves have a higher effiency rating than the older guys. Newer stoves havea secondary combustion mode that they go through before the smoke exits the flue.The different companies achieve those secondary combustions in different ways. Some older stoves were just huge fireboxes that you threw tons of wood into to get high btu's. With new models you go through half the wood to get the same heat output.

 

[Vulcan420]

Thanks for the advise. I figured something was not right and that I was in for more than just putting in a new unit after seeing the amount of buildup in the fireplace itself. I do have more questions though. I don't understand exactly what you mean by a "fully lined" chimney and why you think I need a new liner as opposed to just adding the elbow and blockoff plate with either my current b&b;or a new unit. Also, I cleaned the fireplace and bottom 3 feet or so of the chimney with a wire brush but only got the crusty stuff off and there is still a glaze over much of the fireplace interior. The glaze came off the inside of the chimney pretty good but on the brick and mortar in the fireplace itself it seems pretty impervious to my efforts with the wire brush to get it completely off. Is there a cleaner that would dissolve the creosote? I don't want to use anything that could chemically damage the mortar though. I was planning on calling in a chimney sweep to clean the chimney so now I will have them do an inspection and see what they recommend.

 

[jabush]

I referenced a fully lined chimney because in my experience it makes the whole system work better. Fully lined means that the stainless liner extends from the stovepipe, through the blockoff plate, to the top of the chimney. Before I had my chimney lined, my stovepipe hooked into the crock (through the wall) and dumped the smoke into my unlined exterior chimney. It was difficult to get the draft started and harder to get the flu up to temperature. Consequently...I was getting a pretty good buildup of creosote and later found that I had several small (chimney) fires that I didn't even know about. That scared me, so I bit the bullet and had the thing fully lined and insulated. Works much better now. As far as just adding the stovepipe and stainless "T" up through the blockoff plate and dumping into the clay lined chimney...I'm not sure if that can be done these days due to code restrictions. It would probably be safe, but a good sweep won't install that if local codes don't allow it. You'll have to inquire when you settle on new sweep as I'm not familiar enough with codes to recommend that setup.
Hope this helps...

Thanks for the advise. I figured something was not right and that I was in for more than just putting in a new unit after seeing the amount of buildup in the fireplace itself. I do have more questions though. I don't understand exactly what you mean by a "fully lined" chimney and why you think I need a new liner as opposed to just adding the elbow and blockoff plate with either my current b&b;or a new unit. Also, I cleaned the fireplace and bottom 3 feet or so of the chimney with a wire brush but only got the crusty stuff off and there is still a glaze over much of the fireplace interior. The glaze came off the inside of the chimney pretty good but on the brick and mortar in the fireplace itself it seems pretty impervious to my efforts with the wire brush to get it completely off. Is there a cleaner that would dissolve the creosote? I don't want to use anything that could chemically damage the mortar though. I was planning on calling in a chimney sweep to clean the chimney so now I will have them do an inspection and see what they recommend.

 

[gpcollen1]

I had the same setup when i moved into my house, though The chimney and stove area were cleaned pretty well annually. That stove is a wood hog and as others mentioned, the firebox is huge as compared to some newer models - and they will give more efficient heat. Do not use that B&B;any longer. You will pay for the new stove with what you save in wood and other heat.

If you are looking for a cheaper - but awesome stove, find an Englander. Cannot do better than this for 1K...

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(kupmnv55o0pbsy45npcwbguv)/productDetails.aspx?SKU=4171278

If you do not think you can do it yourself, I would get a sweep out there now, while they are not really busy, and have them do it.