Replacing a rear vent stove, might it be possible to use a top vent in this space? Looking for easy to use stove suggestions.

[natjencks]

Hi Folks! New to the forum and thank you in advance for any advice! We just moved into a new home and are replacing a rear-vent stove (an old EPEL stove) which appears to be missing some parts. The chimney has an entry hole for the stove pipe quite low down so the obvious choice is a rear-vent stove like what we have now, but it seems like the only options I can find are Vermont castings and Hearthstone CAT stoves, and I'm concerned about these being tricky to use and light and leaking smoke into the house on re-fills. I had basically decided on the Hearthstone Manchester or Shelburne rear-vent stoves but am having doubts now about CAT stoves being to finicky. We want guests to be able to easily operate the stove and also I want my wife to be able to use it if they follow precise instructions, so not too finicky is very important. The chimney / Flue is high (~30 ft?), not sure about the draw. With the current EPEL stove its terrible, the house fills with smoke whenever we try and use it, but the stove is a mess.

So my question for the group is: Am I right to be concerned that the Hearthstone Manchester or Shelburne will be too finicky because they are CAT stoves? And if so, could there be a way to install a top venting stove into this space, since it seems like there are not many options for rear-venting , they all appear to be CAT stoves.

Also important is that heat output is not the primary concern here as our house has heat pumps... they do a reasonable job, but need a little help when the temperature gets very low and they don't operate efficiently they need a helping hand from the fire, but mostly we like to fire because we love to relax by a fire and watch it. So its important that the stove look nice, and have a nice viewable fire, and be easy to use.

We love the look of the Hearthstone Manchester and Shelburne but I'm worries about ease of use with these CAT stoves. Photos of the existing install attached.

Thanks all in advance for any advice!
best-
N

 

[EbS-P]

Looks at the Jotul line they can rear vent. They have short leg options but look at the manual approved use might only allow fireplace hearth. And it appears you won’t meet ember protection in front of stove either.

 

[natjencks]

Thank you! I will take a look at the Jotul line. Our local installer suggested that we can use a fireproof mat that they can provide to go in front of the hearthstone to provide compliance with ember protection.

I really like the look of the Jotul F205 series but that seems to only be offered in Europe for some reason.

Do you agree that the Hearthstone and Vermont Castings CAT stoves will be frustrating and too finicky?

Thank you!

 

[mikey]

I like the vice grips are they factory or after market?

 

[natjencks]

I like the vice grips are they factory or after market?

Ha .

Yes I have since fixed this old EFEL stove (from what I can tell Its an EFEL Harmony 3), so that it doesn't need the vise grip anymore (it used to need some weight / torque applied to the handle to keep it securely shut... Ive fixed that, but there are a lot of issues with this stove, and its been very difficult to troubleshoot since there is very little documentation on this stove and it appears to be missing a few parts which could be impossible or very challenging to replace, so it seems like the best bet is to replace the stove.

Too bad in a way because I actually love the look and function of the stove, it's nice and roomy and has front loading, top loading, and side loading.

But Its too hard to fix something I have no documentation on and is missing potentially irreplaceable parts!

 

[jalmondale]

It doesn't sound like you want a cat stove, not because of operation issues, but because of flame viewing. Cat stoves tend to have much less 'woo fire!' flames than non-cats, although hybrids (with both a cat and secondary air tubes) are supposed to counteract that. I believe the Woodstock Progress Hybrid is rear-venting, but I'm sure there are others.

As far as operation, I have a rear-venting cat stove (Woodstock Fireview), and I've found it exceptionally easy to use. It's my first wood stove, and I've had absolutely no issues with it from day 1. The loading door height is set so that you don't get smoke in the room on a reload (I think it helps that it's side-loading to make this work), and the operating instructions are basically:
1) Put both levers near the door all the way down
2) Load wood, light (if necessary, usually not if there's coals)
3) Wait 30-45 seconds with the door cracked then close the door
4) Wait a few minutes (5-15) until the probe thermometer hits 500, lift the cat lever and set the air lever to '2'. Pass the time by watching the pretty fire =P
5) Wait another 30-45 seconds until the flames are big, set the air to '1'.

For overnight burns, repeat (5) and set it to '0', otherwise you're g2g. I don't think it's very sensitive around those precise steps, but if I had to give someone a list, that's what it would be - you should definitely be able to print short and simple instructions to keep near the stove for guests.

 

[natjencks]

Thank you!

Based on everyone’s feedback and also some very terrible feedback on their Facebook page I’ve taken the hearthstone stoves off the list which is too bad because they look great 🤷‍♂️.

I’m now looking very closely at the Jotul F55 and the Jotul F500 Oslo (v3).

Based on the feedback on this forum it seems like folks are a bit wary of the F500 because it’s a new design and there seem to have been some hiccups with quality control and bad / warped CATs…

However my wife and I prefer the look of the F500 and we really like the side load capability.

So you guys think it would be a mistake to go with an F500 Oslo v3? Seems pretty easy to operate?

 

[stoveliker]

I think for good advice it would be useful to list the height of the thimble.

Also, at your flue stack height, I'm surprised you have smoke issues with an older (presumably easy breathing) stove. How long is the horizontal run? Is the flue clear/clean? Is the cap (screen?) not blocked?

Do you have a chimney liner?

 

[EbS-P]

Thank you!

Based on everyone’s feedback and also some very terrible feedback on their Facebook page I’ve taken the hearthstone stoves off the list which is too bad because they look great 🤷‍♂️.

I’m now looking very closely at the Jotul F55 and the Jotul F500 Oslo (v3).

Based on the feedback on this forum it seems like folks are a bit wary of the F500 because it’s a new design and there seem to have been some hiccups with quality control and bad / warped CATs…

However my wife and I prefer the look of the F500 and we really like the side load capability.

So you guys think it would be a mistake to go with an F500 Oslo v3? Seems pretty easy to operate?

I don’t think the 500 V3 is a mistake but there just greater chances that it won’t meet your performance expectations. There are several very happy V3 owners on the forum. But there are just as many that are having issues and must solve them sometimes on their own.

Honestly if you don’t have a liner I might consider moving the thimble up so you can consider top vent stoves. PACIFIC Energy T5 or T6 would be my choice. Cost wise. I’m guessing moving that thimble would be 500$ more just a guess. T5 is probably 500$ less than the V3. (Just a guess).

Keep shopping and exploring you have time.

 

[bundy150]

30 feet should give you a very good draw. The Shelburne with rear vent should be a very good option and look good. I have a Castleton and don't find CAT stoves too finicky.

 

[stoveliker]

I would consider the set up needed to be able to include a (n accessible) key damper. You may need one.

 

[bundy150]

Perhaps a 6 inch liner connected to your existing stove would solve your smoke problem. It's a start and could be used for a new stove if you decide to go that way.

 

[begreen]

Look at the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

 

[bundy150]

Link to EFEL operation

 

[natjencks]

I think for good advice it would be useful to list the height of the thimble.

Also, at your flue stack height, I'm surprised you have smoke issues with an older (presumably easy breathing) stove. How long is the horizontal run? Is the flue clear/clean? Is the cap (screen?) not blocked?

Do you have a chimney liner?

The rear vent out of the stove enters the chimney (is this called the thimble?) at 29” (at center of 6” pipe) above the hearth stone.

There is a chimney liner but a chimney sweep / technician that came to clean the chimney said it was in very poor condition and made from a few different sections of metal liner and they highly reccomeneded replacement (of course). They also said it had huge amounts of creosote build up.

So we are 100% going to replace the Flue liner and the chimney cap, the only questions is what stove should go with it.

Thanks for the feedback stoveliker

-N

 

[natjencks]

Perhaps a 6 inch liner connected to your existing stove would solve your smoke problem. It's a start and could be used for a new stove if you decide to go that way.

Yes I keep coming back to this, it seems like it might make sense to replace the flue first before replacing the stove. The local shop are so eager to sell the stoves they all want to do the stove install at the same time as the flue and if it’s done that way I believe the rebate can be allied to the install work.

At the end of the day we do want to replace the stove because as much as I love it, we have no documentation for it and it appears to be missing some internal parts… it may even have been designed as a coal burning stove.

Prob easier to replace the stove st the same time.

Thank you!!

 

[natjencks]

Link to EFEL operation

This is very interesting! But my Efel is WAY WAY older than the one in the video and certainly doesn’t have any of those controls. I believe that our existing stove is an Efel Harmony 3, but it may actually be the coal burning version of the stove I dont know.

There is a steel part that appears to missing at the base of the rear baffle and also some parts potentially related to airflow missing from the back. I tried t on find sources for parts or any type of support and couldn’t find so i think the course of least resistance is simply replacing the stove. Thank you!

 

[natjencks]

30 feet should give you a very good draw. The Shelburne with rear vent should be a very good option and look good. I have a Castleton and don't find CAT stoves too finicky.

Hmm. Good to hear that you have had a good experience with the castleton. Maybe I’m weighing Hearthstones bad Facebook page reviews too heavily. Sometimes customers who have had a negative experience can be much more vocal than countless customers who have had good experiences.

Is your castleton and EPA cat stove? No issues with smoke and or adequate draw?
Nice looking fire?

Thanks!

 

[stoveliker]

If your liner has heavy creosote in it, your smoke issues could be due to that (restriction of the flue cross section).

A clean liner with 30 ft may draft too much. So be prepared to have to add a key damper. Have the installer measure draft (possibly after installing the stove, because this should be done with a good liner, not a clogged one - and it should be done with the stove running). That should tell you whether a damper is needed.

But yes, the tax credit is for both stove and any other install cost, so liner too. It therefore indeed makes sense to do both at once.

There are other folks more knowledgeable about stoves that would work with the height of the (indeed) thimble, so I'll refrain from making myself look more foolish than I already am

 

[bundy150]

Yes, my Castleton is the newest EPA model. No draw or smoke issues with 29 feet of 6" liner and 2 bends of 30 degrees. That EFEL is a big stove and replacing it with a Manchester seems like a good choice. Every stove maker has complaints, but most are due to user error or bad install. Dry wood is key.

 

[WarmerWithWood]

The rear vent out of the stove enters the chimney (is this called the thimble?) at 29” (at center of 6” pipe) above the hearth stone.

There is a chimney liner but a chimney sweep / technician that came to clean the chimney said it was in very poor condition and made from a few different sections of metal liner and they highly reccomeneded replacement (of course). They also said it had huge amounts of creosote build up.

So we are 100% going to replace the Flue liner and the chimney cap, the only questions is what stove should go with it.

Thanks for the feedback stoveliker

-N

Just replaced a 30 ft clay liner with flex SS - they also poured a vermiculite mix between the pipe and the chimney block - it wasn't cheap, fyi. Thankfully we had insurance help because those creosote covered flues do cause chimney fires. Most of the old clay liners were cracked and creosote glazed both sides of the tiles. Seems that is first step.