Replacing a Riteway 37 with a Drolet Heat Commander. Here we go!

[mondain]

Hey Everyone,

New guy here. I am looking to replace an old Riteway 37 with a new Drolet HC, in my Swiss chalet cabin in eastern PA. Around 1500sqft, the HC is more than enough. The Riteway did its job for 40+ years but the steel is eaten and cracked (someone else overburned in it) and it is time to put something safer in. My Dad installed the furnace when he built the house, literally building the cinderblock basement walls around it. He unfortunately passed away, and I inherited the house. I want to use it more, so I am upgrading it where necessary. Admittedly I am new to all of this, having only my experience and knowledge from my Dad.

I've been reading all the posts about the Drolet HC. Cant say I am looking foward to somehow getting the old furnace up and out of the basement, and the larger/heavier HC in. The only way that is happening is through my outer basement Bilco doors. If I cant get some kind of delivery truck with a jib crane I dunno how I am gonna do this.

This thread will be my story. I welcome all thoughts and ideas

 

[mondain]

The house is 2 floors plus basement. The upstairs are bedrooms, each their own zone with hydronic baseboard heat. The main floor also has hydronic baseboard heat, to supplement the wood furnace heat. Once the house is warmed, we can cruise on wood heat or electric, but prefer wood because I have many cords of seasoned wood already available to me.

As you can see in the pic, our homemade plenum has four ducts that are I think 8" each. The HC has six 6" ducts, and I was told that I cant just block 2 of them off and use 4; that the airflow is designed around all 6 working? I may have to use 4 of the ducts to connect to my 4 register runs, and maybe add 2 new registers right in the basement? Does that make sense?

My dad always wanted a big fireplace in the living room and he recently added one. They redid the single-stack chimney into the yuge chimney in the pic. It was rebuilt to support both the fireplace and the furnace separately, so while I dont know the diameter of the furnace chimney or its lining, I am told it was done correctly to support both. So I am hoping swapping in the HC means I do not have to change anything with the chimney.

I want to get the HC purchased, if not the whole job done, in 2023 to qualify for the 22% tax break. I missed the 26%, whoops.

 

[brenndatomu]

Block 2 of the holes, then open the other 4 of them up to 8" and reuse the ducts you have...

 

[brenndatomu]

What size flue is the chimney inside?

 

[mondain]

Block 2 of the holes, then open the other 4 of them up to 8" and reuse the ducts you have...

Does the initial reduction to 6" openings in the plenum matter or will the airspeed just increase?

I'd like to reuse as much of the existing ductwork as I can, but I do have to see where the HC will go on the floor vs where the Riteway is now, and see how they line up. Most likely hiring an HVAC guy to do all that.

 

[mondain]

What size flue is the chimney inside?

No idea.

 

[brenndatomu]

The only reason I ask is that it looks short....and does not meet the 10/2/3 rule...2' taller than anything within 10' to the side, and at least 3' above it's roof penetration (that one does not apply here) Maybe that pic is deceiving?
Also probably has a large masonry flue, so between that and being short, you may have to extend and line that chimney to get the draft you need to run a modern efficient wood furnace...they don't waste much heat up the flue...so the chimney has to be right, since it is the engine that powers the furnace to burn properly.
You can add some class A chimney pipe on top to extend the height...and they make an adapter to convert from insulated liner inside, to class A on top also.

 

[brenndatomu]

Does the initial reduction to 6" openings in the plenum matter or will the airspeed just increase?

A 6" opening will decrease flow some

 

[mondain]

The only reason I ask is that it looks short....and does not meet the 10/2/3 rule...2' taller than anything within 10' to the side, and at least 3' above it's roof penetration (that one does not apply here) Maybe that pic is deceiving?
Also probably has a large masonry flue, so between that and being short, you may have to extend and line that chimney to get the draft you need to run a modern efficient wood furnace...they don't waste much heat up the flue...so the chimney has to be right, since it is the engine that powers the furnace to burn properly.
You can add some class A chimney pipe on top to extend the height...and they make an adapter to convert from insulated liner inside, to class A on top also.

Well the pitch of the roof is so steep that, horizontally, I dont know if the top of the chimney is 10' from the shingles, but it could be. The picture is a little deceiving and I'm sorry I dont have a better one.
This is something I will bring up with whatever HVAC guys I get to do the install. I really hope I dont need to extend the chimney taller, it'll look goofy imho

 

[mondain]

A 6" opening will decrease flow some

The current setup, if it is 8" diameter, has no air blower. For 40+ years all the heat we received up the registers was unforced, so that is all I know of 'forced hot air'. The HC has a blower, so even with reduction to 6" diameter, just how slow could the airflow be if there's a blower pushing it? My concern was I read somewhere that you absolutely had to use all six 6" openings or else. And that just didnt sound right..

 

[brenndatomu]

And that just didnt sound right..

It's right.
Or warranty voided.
The blower will speed up based on plenum temp...if it goes to high, it needs to breath...and that puppy can move some air let me tell ya!
If you want to use more than 6 holes you could stay with 6"...would be easier to make 4 holes 8" and stick with what you have though.
The manual specs that you need a minimum of 170 SQ inches of supply duct...sound right or not, that's their spec, it needs to be followed. Not doing so voids warranty and in the event of a fire the insurance company could use that against you to deny a claim if they discovered the variance.

 

[mondain]

It's right.
Or warranty voided.
The blower will speed up based on plenum temp...if it goes to high, it needs to breath...and that puppy can move some air let me tell ya!
If you want to use more than 6 holes you could stay with 6"...would be easier to make 4 holes 8" and stick with what you have though.
The manual specs that you need a minimum of 170 SQ inches of supply duct...sound right or not, that's their spec, it needs to be followed. Not doing so voids warranty and in the event of a fire the insurance company could use that against you to deny a claim if they discovered the variance.

Alright I learn something new every day. I would love to stick with four 8" ducts, it would meet up with my existing ducts perfectly. Calculating area, each 8" duct is 50.26 SQ inches; four of them would give me 201 SQ inches of supply duct. I should be good?

I dont know how to make the four 8" holes in the plenum when it ships with 6" cutouts already. Will have to chew on that.

 

[mondain]

Also does anyone know how to lift a 700 lb furnace straight up, to get it onto a platform of blocks in order to raise it up?? 🤔

 

[brenndatomu]

should be good

Yup.

dont know how to make the four 8" holes in the plenum when it ships with 6" cutouts already. Will have to chew on that.

Lay out where you want the 8" holes, trace around an 8" pipe, either cut the holes with tin snips, or they make a nifty tool for cutting round holes in sheet metal...I bought mine at Menards for $20 a few years back. Or you could have an HVAC guy cut them too. Then install your take off adapter. Easy peasy.

Also does anyone know how to lift a 700 lb furnace straight up, to get it onto a platform of blocks in order to raise it up?? 🤔

You don't...you lift it up a little at a time with a long prybar, blocking the lift up one corner at a time until you get up to the height you want....I'd use 2x4 or 4x4 blocks.
I've installed a number of wood furnaces by myself (the heaviest was 900 lbs) using nothing more than pipe for rollers, and a bunch of wood blocks with a long prybar...mine is about 6' long (I use what is commonly referred to as a spud bar)
Oh, and I installed a Heat Commander furnace for someone, and I really don't believe it is 700 lbs , more like 500 maybe...I actually found it pretty easy to move.
Edit, looks like the hole cutters have went up...big surprise there, huh?! https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...-380d-40ab-a4fd-1d179496494e&ipos=1&exp=false

 

[brenndatomu]

I recall reading of a fellah that installed a 800 lb gun safe in the basement basically by himself, him and his little kids, not that they were able to provide any extra muscle. He slid the safe down the steps on some boards, controlling the decent with a winch, then when it was at the bottom, carefully stood it up and rolled it across the floor on a bucket of golf balls kept corralled by a hula hoop and his kids snatching any escaped balls to put them back in the ring.
Work smart, not hard.

 

[mondain]

Yup.

Lay out where you want the 8" holes, trace around an 8" pipe, either cut the holes with tin snips, or they make a nifty tool for cutting round holes in sheet metal...I bought mine at Menards for $20 a few years back. Or you could have an HVAC guy cut them too. Then install your take off adapter. Easy peasy.

You don't...you lift it up a little at a time with a long prybar, blocking the lift up one corner at a time until you get up to the height you want....I'd use 2x4 or 4x4 blocks.
I've installed a number of wood furnaces by myself (the heaviest was 900 lbs) using nothing more than pipe for rollers, and a bunch of wood blocks with a long prybar...mine is about 6' long (I use what is commonly referred to as a spud bar)
Oh, and I installed a Heat Commander furnace for someone, and I really don't believe it is 700 lbs , more like 500 maybe...I actually found it pretty easy to move.
Edit, looks like the hole cutters have went up...big surprise there, huh?! https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...-380d-40ab-a4fd-1d179496494e&ipos=1&exp=false

Thanks for the link and the info, this is all invaluable stuff!

You're basically saying I need to build an entirely new plenum top piece, since the one from Drolet comes pre-cut with 6" holes, and their calculations in the installation manual (https://www.drolet.ca/file/46201A_2023-01-20.pdf) are all based on 6" ducts (such as going from 6" to 5" after 20 feet. What would these calcs be on 8" ducts? I'll contact Drolet and see if they will tell me.

Drolet lists the shipping weight at 748 lb, which includes the pallet etc. I figure maybe 100 lbs in pallet and support/packing. Once I get it on the cement basement floor on a dolly, I suspect I will be able to move it around ok. But eventually it has to go in-place, and then the pedestal blocks assembled under it as I lift it.

 

[mondain]

I recall reading of a fellah that installed a 800 lb gun safe in the basement basically by himself, him and his little kids, not that they were able to provide any extra muscle. He slide the safe down the steps on some boards, controlling the decent with a winch, then when it was at the bottom, carefully stood it up and rolled it across the floor on a bucket of golf balls kept corralled by a hula hoop and his kids snatching any escaped balls to put them back in the ring.
Work smart, not hard.

Unfortunately I dont have a stairs option; there are several problems with the inside basement steps (room at the top of the steps to rotate, room at the bottom before hitting the wall, etc) that would make coming down that way just a nightmare, not including how to get it up the steps of the front deck, up the transom into the house, etc.

Enter, the external basement access via the Bilco doors. There are no steps in the Bilco access (see pic, it's full of wood right now from front to back, which I have to move back to outside). I have to somehow lift the furnace up, over, and down into the Bilco pit, onto some kind of rollers that allow me to slide it over the door transom and onto waiting dollies.

The golf ball idea == genius!

 

[mondain]

All that wood in the Bilco is like 8 years seasoned. I have to take it all out of there and put it in the carport outside (pic), which contains a ton of other wood also seasoned like 8 years. I hear the Heat Commander loves really dry wood, it should love this stuff.

 

[brenndatomu]

Unfortunately I dont have a stairs option; there are several problems with the inside basement steps (room at the top of the steps to rotate, room at the bottom before hitting the wall, etc) that would make coming down that way just a nightmare, not including how to get it up the steps of the front deck, up the transom into the house, etc.

Have a neighbor with a loader tractor?
If not just build a quick temporary wooden A frame to hang a chain hoist or come-a-long from (or even a winch)

 

[brenndatomu]

You're basically saying I need to build an entirely new plenum top piece, since the one from Drolet comes pre-cut with 6" holes, and their calculations in the installation manual (https://www.drolet.ca/file/46201A_2023-01-20.pdf) are all based on 6" ducts (such as going from 6" to 5" after 20 feet. What would these calcs be on 8" ducts? I'll contact Drolet and see if they will tell me.

Nope, no need for all that...just put your 8" holes over 4 of the 6" holes if possible...if not, just screw a sheet of metal over their holes (not actually holes, just punched for knockouts) seal it with silicone or foil HVAC tape and then cut your 8" holes where you want.
Any of the knockouts that remain uncovered can easily be sealed up with foil HVAC tape.
I wouldn't worry too much about the 6 to 5 after 20 thing using 8" ducts, you'll be fine, this is a lot of furnace for that lil house...you might wanna get familiar with using the "windowstats"

 

[mondain]

Have a neighbor with a loader tractor?
If not just build a quick temporary wooden A frame to hang a chain hoist or come-a-long from (or even a winch)

I am currently polling people I know to see who has a tractor I can borrow, or even a mini excavator or something that can lift that much weight. I thought about building something to hang a hoist, which is a good idea for the up-and-down the bilco pit, but I would still have to pick it up from the ground in front of the bilco doors (if that's where the liftgate delivery leaves it) and swing it over said pit. The lip of the bilco doors are about 14" above outside ground level, too.

Maybe some kind of A-frame front to back gantry crane thing? Tractor sounds easier/faster/cheaper/better..

 

[mondain]

Nope, no need for all that...just put your 8" holes over 4 of the 6" holes if possible...if not, just screw a sheet of metal over their holes (not actually holes, just punched for knockouts) seal it with silicone or foil HVAC tape and then cut your 8" holes where you want.
Any of the knockouts that remain uncovered can easily be sealed up with foil HVAC tape.
I wouldn't worry too much about the 6 to 5 after 20 thing using 8" ducts, you'll be fine, this is a lot of furnace for that lil house...you might wanna get familiar with using the "windowstats"

I totally didnt even think of covering up the holes with sheet metal and just cutting my own 8" holes, thank you! lol

For the most part this furnace is used when I have to raise the temp from 0F to 72F quickly after just arriving. It still takes 24 hours for everything inside to not be freezing cold to the touch. On the more mild days I'll stick with the baseboard hydronic. From the sound of it the Drolet will have no problem.

 

[brenndatomu]

I thought about building something to hang a hoist, which is a good idea for the up-and-down the bilco pit, but I would still have to pick it up from the ground in front of the bilco doors (if that's where the liftgate delivery leaves it) and swing it over said pit. The lip of the bilco doors are about 14" above outside ground level, too.

If you build an A frame over the Bilco pit then you can just slowly pick up the furnace (at an angle) until it can clear that curb...have a rope on it so someone can keep it from swinging into the house when it clears...maybe some plywood against the curb to help it slide and prevent scuffing

 

[salecker]

If you want a quick way to move it and lower it...
Call a tow truck,they can lift it back over your pit and lower it to the bottom onto your method of rolling it into place.
I will have to remember the golf ball trick,it rocks

 

[brenndatomu]

If you want a quick way to move it and lower it...
Call a tow truck,they can lift it back over your pit and lower it to the bottom onto your method of rolling it into place.
I will have to remember the golf ball trick,it rocks

We have a large safe in our house that my dad tells me was brought into the basement garage hanging off the boom of an old Ford tow truck (F650-750 size) and the poor fellah could barely steer due to the front tires almost off the ground...this would have been back in the 50's I believe.
Our place is not the family homestead, but dad (and I) grew up right up the street and he was somehow involved in this adventure back then I guess...all hands on deck! (back in the day when one phone call brought all the neighbors to help)