Replacing the VC WM42SX in existing construction, possible?

[73blazer]

I have a (broken link removed) (Not WMC42 where the link goes, although I think it's pretty much the same thing, only difference I can find is the brick walls, mine are metal with a brick floor). Mine was probably installed when the home was built, in 1997. We just moved here, so no, I didn't pick it out.


This thing is a pig. 6-9 24-30" 6" split logs every 45 minutes. I can't use it. Pack that sucker full and damp it down, the wood is still gone within 45 minutes, I don't understand why anyone would want such a unit. Just put gas in if you want the ambiance. The only thing royal about this thing is it's appetite for wood.
Anyhow...yes, I am frustrated with it, as I see others here are, well at least one in particular, is with his WMC unit.

I have free wood supply and wish to replace the thing with a HE unit, EPA non EPA, I don't really care, so long as it's not sucking down the wood. Although most HE models are EPA rated I see.
It's in a 2500sq house with 28' ceilings. 30'+ high termination, never a draft problem, installed in chase. Insulated chase? I do not know.
Picture Interior
Picture Exterior

I've been searching around here for the past several hours. I've found all the brands I think. I've been to a couple fireplace dealers. I have a good idea of the brands and models, my questions are more around the replacing process, if it is even realistically possible.

QUestions I have are:
1. both dealers (neither dealt with VC stuff) said I needed new chimney pipe. My plate says I have VC S8 chimney pipe, which I believe is 8" triple wall air cooled.
If I wanted a Quadrafire 7100, or any non VC brand, do I HAVE to replace the chimney pipe? THat would require completely tearing off the chase wall, would it not?.
Nobody makes adaptors that would qualify for certification and insurance?

2. If I have to use the VC pipe, my only other choice really is the VC Sequoia Cat model. I don't mind the cat part, but I'm very concerned about VC reputation and quality. Does anybody have good/bad experience with this Sequoia model?

3. Is it even possible, without spending a fortune, to replace such a fireplace? Is it possible to chip certain stones off the wall (it's cultured stone BTW) and put them back and still look good? Even if I use the Sequoia, I suspect the height of the pipe will need to adjust to the new unit, the manual says that supports are needed only for 30' or more of pipe. If I have supports, is that an area for concern, seems I wouldn't be able to push the pipe up or down if it was attach to some supports? I suspect I will have to make some sort of access from the outside or remove more stone than I might like to get in the chase to de-attach/attact collars, wiring, etc, but I don't really know?

4. Is using a model with a 6" or 7" flue possible, the idea here is to line my existing 8" flue with a liner?

5. One dealer said he'd put an insert in it. Said he had done it before several times. I had pictures, I had the manual, he knew exactly what I had, but said he could put an insert in it. Was he taking in his ventless showroom exhaust too much, or is that possible? I don't much care for the look of the inserts, but it would be cost effective.

The 2 dealers I went too weren't very helpful. They weren't answering my quesitons of the replacment process, the stone work, access required..etc. THey just wanted to put brochures in my hand and give me unit prices. I know I need to find a few more places to visit.

I'm not a cheapskate, I realize it will cost some money. I have the budget for it, but I'd really like to get in installed for less than 5k if I can help it, 4k would be really convinient. These propane bills are killing me, or going to if I have to keep paying them. $1300 at the end of november, and I'm running out already. If only I could keep up with the Royal's appetite for wood, I just don't have the patience to keep hauling in wood every 45 minutes though.

Anyhow, thanks for any reponses and/or advice, this is a really nice site, please forgive me if I've tripped any newbie rules, I tried to read them all.

 

[DiscoInferno]

I have a WMC42 that I'm going to upgrade some day, and I've pondered some of these same questions. (Seasonal home at the moment, so I'm not in a hurry.) You could do an insert, or perhaps a hearth stove (like a Homestead) in front of the fireplace, both with either a full 6" liner or possibly a direct connect if you do in fact have the S8 AC chimney (which is HT2100 rated). Either one will be cheaper (probably much cheaper) than replacing the whole fireplace, certainly within your budget. I too was thinking about the Sequoia to reuse my S8 chimney; based on the slop up at the top the existing chimney seems to just be sitting on the WMC42 so I suspect it would be easy to lift it as needed. The S8 seems to be pretty specific to VC, so I don't think you'll find any approve method to hook it up to another fireplace brand. I don't know if lining an existing chimney is allowed for new ZC fireplaces. There is the Magnum ZC ((broken link removed to http://www.americanenergysystems.com/magnum_zc.cfm?tabID=1)), which claims to be compatible with any 8" chimney. Has all the usual feature of an EPA stove, but doesn't actually seem to be certified.

In my primary residence I did replace a different prefab fireplace with my Ultima; this required first pulling off the surround, hacking the fireplace into pieces, and dropping and sectioning the existing chimney. This left an empty chase and cavity in the wall. The new unit was framed in, and then my installer climbed down the inside of the chase from the top, building a makeshift 2x4 ladder inside, to install the new chimney. He was the only guy I could find who suggested that approach, another one I talked to wanted to rip open the wall floor to ceiling on both floors! My installer charged me $2500 for labor, which seems high but a) I don't do heights, b) it was the best price I could find, c) he wound up rebuilding part of the chase also and d) he got me a good deal on the unit and accessories through his wholesaler. Total bill was somewhere around $5k in 2006. A hearth stove install would have run $3000-$3500, but I didn't have space for something sticking out into the room.

 

[73blazer]

Thanks for your reply!

The tag riveted to the inside of the fireplace has Chimney is "S 8 at 2" clearance" stamped into it. There a space between the S and the 8 and I looked hard for evidence of the K that would indicate 2wall. There's nothing there. It says S 8. But I find conflicting info on if 2wall was even allowed with the unit. The website marketing page says 2 wall is standard, the manual says 36 model can use 2 or 3, but 42 model must have 3 wall. I think you found the same thing reading some previous older posts. I would tend to trust my tag and say it's three wall. I supposed I'll need to climb up to and measure the outside diameter to actually tell though. CHimney was clean as whistle when we moved in, so I never went up there to check anything. Mabey I can tell if it's has supports or not. It may just be sitting there. 30' was the max before supports were required, according to the manual, I suspect I'm just under 30'. They get premium price for chimney pipe, $240/8' section at one place. Not including installation. Ouch.
I'm leaning heavily towards the Sequoia to make use of my existing chimney and save on installation and pipe cost, I just can't decide if that makes good sense though.
If I can find somebody who will even look at my situation, the two places I went to didn't seem to want to give me the time of day. Here's some brochures, anything else we can help you with today? Uh..yeah...about this replacment job...


ANyhow...thanks.