Sad state of business - stoves

[BruceNorEast]

I have three local dealers, and visited two often over the past 12 months. Both recently closed. They are both in very good locations and had a good/very-good selection, knowledgeable staff. One looks permanent, the other is trying to reopen.

I'm very surprised that they closed, especially with everyone trying to reduce the cost of heating their homes. Seems that the economy is not very good (many businesses have cut staffing significantly, though some hiring for specialized work). Maybe too long on margins that were too thin? What's it like in your area?

Ended up buying from a more distant dealer with no prior experience, due to a manufacturers tent sale (advertised selling deeply discounted stoves, proved true).

This dealer seems to be doing fine, but they are well diversified (they also do residential landscaping/play sets/fencing). But because they are not focused on stoves, the staff seem to know a little about a lot - including heating stoves.

So far, seems I've been the one sweating the details:

• I gave them a standard form showing all of the relevant dimensions, they said the stove I wanted would work and wrote up a sales order. Later, I reviewed the clearances to combustibles using the manufacturers specs and found issues (e.g. need a mantel guard) and had to bring it to their attention!
• They had included an ember shield because my hearth didn't extend the full dimensions that the spec called for. I double checked and noticed the manufacturer spec states it must be R1 for heat insulation, the ember shield is not sufficient! I had them drop it from the order, and installed an extension myself.
• My dimensions showed that my chimney is about 33 feet tall, yet the sales order listed a 25 foot liner. When I questioned them about it, they got the manager involved who said "you need the 35 foot liner kit" - for an extra $350.

Because my chimney is so tall, and having been a lurker here for the past year, I asked for a flue damper. They all tried to talk me out of it, stating that the stove is very tight and will work best without one. Ended up agreeing that I'd buy one, but would install it myself later if I determined it was needed. Hoping the installation crew checks the draft and determines if it's needed based on facts. Also read here that it might be a good safety measure in case of a chimney fire, is that true?

Anyway, the install is this week, and though they've been OK to deal with so far (they're pleasant and don't seem to be crooks), I haven't exactly been knocked over with confidence.

Is this typical in today's economy? What are you guys and gals experiencing?

Bruce.

 

[DougA]

It's a Catch 22. Poor dealers give poor advice which results in many people having poor experiences with wood stoves. Many of us are buying stoves/chimneys from big box stores because the mark-up at 'real' stove stores is often outrageous. Or, like me, they are buying used stoves from people who paid a ton of money for a great stove and are selling it because they can't get it to work right. I'm picking up my 2 yr old Equinox tomorrow (hopefully) at half cost of new.

 

[BruceNorEast]

An Equinox - Wow Thats a nice looking unit with plenty of capacity. Good luck Doug!

 

[tryingtostaywarm]

I have found that same thing. Apparently there used to be a lot more stores in the area. There are 2 within 2 hours and 2 more that would install here. Between them all they only sell 4 brands. They have been very pleasant and I'm narrowing down my searches to a specific stove but I do think I want someone to install it if not for codes...

 

[bholler]

I don't know about your area but we are sweeps that sell a few stoves a year and we are booked almost to December now with a few stoves sold and going to install soon. Business is pretty good here.

 

[BruceNorEast]

TryingToStayWarm, thanks for the response. My insurance company had no problem with me getting a stove as long as it's professionally installed. You may want to call yours. Good luck with your search, hope your a happy burner soon.

BHoller, glad you're doing well, hoping everyone is soon. Best of luck to you.

 

[Woody Stover]

My insurance company had no problem with me getting a stove as long as it's professionally installed.

Those guys don't sound like 'professionals' to me. If you keep an eye on them, you should be OK...but if it was me, I'd find out how much bholler would charge for a road trip.

 

[bholler]

Haha thanks woody Id love to but not this time of year

 

[Grisu]

Anyway, the install is this week, and though they've been OK to deal with so far (they're pleasant and don't seem to be crooks), I haven't exactly been knocked over with confidence.

They have been very pleasant and I'm narrowing down my searches to a specific stove but I do think I want someone to install it if not for codes...

If you don't trust the installer from the store and would rather hire someone else to do it look for a certified sweep in your area: http://www.csia.org/search and (broken link removed to http://www.ncsg.org/search)

However, I have to say that the guys who did my install were not the same as the ones doing the sales in the store and they seemed to know their stuff.

 

[webby3650]

We have been covered up! Went from a super busy winter to one of the busiest summers ever! I started working Saturdays several weeks early this year and there is no end in sight! That's pretty good after 44 years of business.

 

[BruceNorEast]

Thanks for the links Grisu! I think the crew doing the install are very experienced and should be fine, but I'll save your post just in case.

Webby, glad to hear you've got all the work you can handle, hope there's a bonus for you. Do you know why the demand has increased so much? Fuel prices?

 

[webby3650]

Thanks for the links Grisu! I think the crew doing the install are very experienced and should be fine, but I'll save your post just in case.

Webby, glad to hear you've got all the work you can handle, hope there's a bonus for you. Do you know why the demand has increased so much? Fuel prices?

Tax incentives seemed to kick things off a few years ago.
Progressively colder winters and increasing fuel and electric prices have driven it for a few years too.

 

[bholler]

Ours is a little busier than normal but this time of year we are usually out 2 months of so. My father has been in business 38 years now so we have a great customer base and reputation which makes it easier also

 

[tsquini]

I have noticed there are a lot more high end stove shops. Here I New England the wood burning has become fashionable. I'm not interested in buying an ash can for $150. I have found my go to place is http://www.seacoastfireplace.com/. They are reasonably priced and know about wood burning.

 

[gyrfalcon]

i'm in rural Vermont, and there aren't a lot of stove stores, i assume because everybody still has an old pre-EPA stove, which can go on for many decades. the one big stove store in my half of the state carries *everything*, has two locations and appears to be flourishing.

My experience with the sales people was the same as yours, but the store's installers really knew their stuff. i'm profoundly grateful to the folks here at Hearth.com who guided me on clearances and etc. because the people at the store didn't have a clue, even with diagram and details in hand. The installers did, and were very careful. The sales people didn't even know what the updated reqs were for the stove i was interested in and i had to educate them. Thank God I wasn't at the mercy of the sales guy. (i bought a Hearthstone Heritage and it's exactly right for me)

FYI, my installers did not even think to check the draft, so i don't know if you can count on them to do that for you. it may be a case of trial and error in your case. if your draft is too strong, you'll know it pretty quickly, especially if you consult the experts here. On the other hand, there are no regs or inspections at all in this state for woodstove installs, nor do insurance companies even ask more than whether you ''have'' a woodstove, not what kind and not whether you use it for primary heating.

 

[bholler]

It is not common practice at all to check draft of a wood stove If the chimney is sized right and high enough it will draft fine. The only complicating factor is house pressurization issues.

 

[bholler]

Especially on a new stove install you would have to get through the small breaking fires before you could get a full fire going in order to test the draft. I am sorry i don't have time to do that and i don't think many sweeps or installers do either

 

[BruceNorEast]

Thank you guys for all the great info! If it wasn't for this forum and all the good people contributing so much of their time and wisdom, I'd be just another ignorant fool depending entirely on the salesmen...

Tsquini, my Mom used to live in Seabrook, I'll check that place out the next time I'm near the coast.

Gyrfalcon, if either of those stores in the southern part of VT I'd make the trip. Northern parts, like the Burlington area, is a long drive for me.

Bholler, good points. I thought they'd have something to measure the draft, I wouldn't expect them to build season breakin fires... I bought the damper and will install myself if needed.

Bruce.

 

[bholler]

Yes bruce we do carry a draft gauge but almost never use it in order to measure draft you need the fire burning at full temp. So it is generally not possible to measure. Now if it is cold enough out to have decent draft many times we will split up a couple boards off of the skid and start a small fire to make sure the fire brick are dried out good and make sure everything is working. But that small fire would not give us an accurate draft measurement.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Thank you guys for all the great info! If it wasn't for this forum and all the good people contributing so much of their time and wisdom, I'd be just another ignorant fool depending entirely on the salesmen...

Tsquini, my Mom used to live in Seabrook, I'll check that place out the next time I'm near the coast.

Gyrfalcon, if either of those stores in the southern part of VT I'd make the trip. Northern parts, like the Burlington area, is a long drive for me.

Bholler, good points. I thought they'd have something to measure the draft, I wouldn't expect them to build season breakin fires... I bought the damper and will install myself if needed.

Bruce.

Likely the closer of the two to you, depending on where you are in New England, would be Shelburne, which is just south of Burlington. The other one, if I remember correctly, is just a little further south and further east. As I say, they carry everything, but you won't get knowledgeable advice you can trust about how to choose among them, I'm afraid. Seems like you already bought a stove, though, no?

I'd suggest, in addition to reading and asking questions here, your best source of info would be a really, really, really good chimney sweep-- not some guy in a one-man band who decided to hire out after years of DIY when he got laid off from a regular job, but somebody certified and approved and trained, etc., who's also an installer of stoves and new chimneys.

 

[Grisu]

I think you mean the chimney sweep shop in Shelburne (http://www.chimneysweepshop.com/) and the other might be the stove depot in Ferrisburgh (https://www.thestovedepot.com/). Both are pretty far up north. I would check some stoves you like and then do a dealer search on the manufacturer's website or call them.

 

[aussiedog3]

I was at my local dealer about a month ago just to ask a few questions.
They are so busy that if you bought a stove at that time it would have been 3-4 months before they could have installed it.
Sales were very good but they were having trouble finding good qualified help to hire.
They would not even consider being hired by the hour or job to install a stove and chimney that I already have.
If I didn't buy it there, they didn't have time to schedule me in to install either. I can understand that. Good problem for them to have.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I think you mean the chimney sweep shop in Shelburne (http://www.chimneysweepshop.com/) and the other might be the stove depot in Ferrisburgh (https://www.thestovedepot.com/). Both are pretty far up north. I would check some stoves you like and then do a dealer search on the manufacturer's website or call them.

Never been to the Stove Depot because it doesn't have as wide a range of makers. Chimney Sweep Shop is the one, and it has a second branch (or did as of a few months ago anyway...) elsewhere in the state.

I agree, figure out what you want and then go visit a place that has them closer to home. That's likely to mean several different trips to different place if you're trying to decide between different manufacturers' models, but them's the breaks. A big place like Chimney Sweep let's you eyeball all the stoves in person on the display floor, but no salesman could keep up on the pros and cons of all of them, I wouldn't think, or at least no ordinary salesman. Mine sure couldn't. If I hadn't been armed with info from the folks at Hearth.com, I would have ended up spending a lot more money for a lot less stove. Very nice people there, I should say, but just not up on the details and not particularly motivated to go check them out.