Safe/easy way to bring a broken trunk to the ground - what I did

[Jerry_NJ]

I have a large Ash which had three trunks coming out of a common trunk at about 6' off the ground. The storm Sandy brought one of these down last October and to my surprise another came down a few days back due to the wet weather and the fact this trunk grew our on the horizontal before turning upward about 15' out from the main trunk. All the wood looks green with a small infestation of ants at the break point - the weak spot.

This trunk/branch was still attached to the main trunk, as said about 6' above the ground, but the top (about another 40') was down and resting on a path I have to my lower property (path for tractor and pickup travel, not just a foot path).

I now have most of it down on the ground and even cut into 16" or so rounds. The largest round being about 16" in diameter - my 16" chain saw will just reach across the thickest part.

I started at the top, cutting and dragging away branches down to a branch diameter of 2" or more. All of this up to the trunk being saved for firewood.

When I got to the main trunk I was faced with cutting a dangerous (I suppose more than a 1000 pounds) hunk of tree that was on the tree end holding on with shattered wood, and at the ground end nosed into the ground. So there was a large downward pressure on the 30' or so run of trunk. I started at the ground end and tried chain sawing up from underneath, assuming the cut would open as the round started to break away... ended up nonetheless with the saw locked in the cut when the tree dropped that end. I tried to get the saw out with a splitting wedge to no luck, only caused the cut to drop closer to the ground. I then went for my never starts well old light duty 16" Craftsman saw - it has a good chain on it. Surprise, it started in a few pulls and on gas at least 6 months old. I used the Craftsman saw to cut my Husky free.

So experienced I then used a long rock wedge to raise the tree enough to shove a branch underneath and cut a couple more rounds, at which point the angle of the trunk still hanging from the main tree as too steep to wedge upward. I think did the following, which worked and may in fact be a good-to-best way to go.

I first cut out a wedge on the top edge, a wedge like one uses to fell a tree. Then I cut from underneath. This wedge gave the tree some room to move downward as the lower cut moved toward a cut through. The open wedge would close, thus opening the underside cut more. I still did not cut all the way through, rather I moved up the trunk about 3 rounds (3 times 16") length and did the same.. continuing in this manner until I was up near the split at the main tree trunk. In this way I brought the full length (less a cleanup cut at the trunk) to the ground.

Is there a better and/or safer way to bring this type trunk to the ground? I am working alone and have only moderate male physical strength (I am big, but old). I do not have any machinery such as a backhoe to bring the trunk to the ground.

In any case I now have only to finish some cuts and bring all rounds to fireplace length, and yes bring the rounds to my electric splitter (near the house/shed) and split and stack. That will come to pass when the weather cools (albeit I found the temps reasonable before 8 Am - but still humid, boy can I sweat). I will move the pieces out of the way tomorrow so I can get my mowing tractor to my lower meadow - and mow before I have to cut 12" of tough field grass off. My mowing deck is a simple finish mower and goes only to about 6 or 7 " off the ground (tire) level.

 

[Ashful]

It sounds like you did a pretty good job of it, making the best of a bad situation. A better way? Almost surely there is, but impossible to say without being on-site. I've dealt with a lot of similar situations this past year, with our two hurricanes, and each one was handled a little different than the next.

I've not cut wedges on downed trunks, the way you describe. When the tension/compression forces are obvious, I usually cut about 1/3 of the way in on the side under compression, until I feel the bar just beginning to pinch. Then I go to the side under tension and cut thru. This is not always easy (or even possible) on partially down stuff, though. When there are too many things going on to know for sure where the tension/compression is, I will use a pole saw to stay far from the cut, or tie off to a tractor (Deere 855 or Ford 3000) to ensure things wont spring toward me. Another favorite technique, when working on real big stuff (I've cut several partially downed trees in the 40" range this year) is to put a platform on the 3-point of the Ford 3000, back up to the tree, and raise the platform up until it's above the center line of the downed tree. Then I can cut thru, knowing that when it falls all the action will be below my feet.

With two of three trunks down, I'd be nervous working in the drop path of that third trunk. Make sure you have a spotter, if you do! It's hard to hear a tree coming down your way with the chainsaw screaming.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, yes the tension/compression is what I was working on but found some benefit with the notching - wedge cutting on the compression side. This allowed me to drop the trunk a few inches at a time.

This is a woods tree, what is left of it, and I plan to try to save the main trunk with the 1/3 remaining tree. It doesn't have to be pretty, I plan to just clean cut the two trunks now broken off to reduce infection/infestation.

When I lost a few large White Pine from Sandy I was fortunate to have a neighbor with a Industrial JD with a backhoe rigged with a grabbing end, not a bucket. He came over and lifted/pulled the large Pine trunks to the ground. I'd still cutting that stuff and have split close to a 1/2 cord for use in the spring/fall when I want just a help warming the house up in the morning.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Jerry, not sure why but I found your explanation a bit difficult to picture. However I can tell you that many times I have to drop a tree in a place where it is impossible for it to fall to the ground. Therefore I have a bit of experience in dropping trees that are off the stump but still standing up. Most will be leaning and the angle will vary depending on the surrounding trees. For me it is a simple matter of first determining the stress points so that you know what is going to happen before you even start that saw. My normal method is like yours in that I will tend to cut 48" sections (3-16" logs out of a 48" cut). I read on this forum about many who will cut a notch in those. I've never done this at all. The only notch I cut is when felling the tree. Usually when a tree is leaning I'll cut the top down to just where it wants to start to pinch. You really have to watch the kerf here to know when to pull the saw out. Then it is a simple matter of cutting from the bottom and letting it fall. If the tree is too big or standing too much upright, then you may have to cut shorter sections but the same principle still applies. In addition, when making the top cut, I will tend to not hold the saw horizontally. I want to make that cut a bit more on the far side before I cut from the top. This will create a much better weak point so that when you make the final cut the tree will want to to in that direction. In other words, you try to force the tree away from you.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, lost of great input/knowledge.

In my case the limb (trunk) broke on its own, and was still holding onto the main trunk with a shattered hing, the top was laid out on my path with the holding forces being agt two points, the hinge at the tree which was about 6' about the ground which fell away fast on one side, opposite the path. The other end was resting on the trail. So I had a main about 40' long needed to cut out to open the trail, and of course to be used for firewood. I considered cutting at thee hinge end, but was concerned about cutting all that weight loose given my limited knowledge of the lumber jack trade. So, I worked, as described from the top end toward the hinge. Right the hinge and about 4' of trunk is all that is attached to the main trunk. I plan to later clean up that break to help the tree heal and continue to grow, now only 1/3rd the size it was a year ago.

 

[red oak]

I've never cut the notches either, except for the felling cut obviously, but I have thought about it. I'm glad it seemed to work well for you. When I am dealing with a very large downed tree under tension (which I really hate doing by the way) I do pretty much as Dennis described, cutting down as far as I can until I can feel it just start to pinch. I have some wedges so I have gotten it stuck and driving a wedge in a few inches to get it out is no big deal, but it is a nuisance and waste of time. I just have the chainsaw, no heavier equipment. For those who are like this, it is really important to watch the tree at all times because in my experience they tend to go pretty suddenly!

 

[bogydave]

Having a back up saw saves the day again

You done good. No injuries. Got the job done.
No damage to the saws ? Even better!
Bet you even learned a few things that will help in the future

 

[Ashful]

I have some wedges so I have gotten it stuck and driving a wedge in a few inches to get it out is no big deal, but it is a nuisance and waste of time.

I usually carry a half dozen plastic wedges to any job, using them quite a bit for bucking logs, but find them useless on anything much over 30" under any serious compression. I've had them completely pancake to paper thickness in a 50" oak, and in big (40"+) ash, they just deform the wood around them. Either way, when your bar is pinched in a big tree, it's pinched. No wedge will get you out of that. Carry a few saws, or at least an extra bar for your power head, so you can cut yourself free.

Experience helps, as I very rarely get my bar pinched anymore, but I used to do it almost daily. Now, I know when I feel the kerf starting to close, to get the heck out of it!

 

[red oak]

I usually carry a half dozen plastic wedges to any job, using them quite a bit for bucking logs, but find them useless on anything much over 30" under any serious compression. I've had them completely pancake to paper thickness in a 50" oak, and in big (40"+) ash, they just deform the wood around them. Either way, when your bar is pinched in a big tree, it's pinched. No wedge will get you out of that. Carry a few saws, or at least an extra bar for your power head, so you can cut yourself free.

Experience helps, as I very rarely get my bar pinched anymore, but I used to do it almost daily. Now, I know when I feel the kerf starting to close, to get the heck out of it!

Yes the plastic wedges won't stand up to those trees. I use metal wedges, the same that I use for splitting. Obviously you can only pound them into the wood a little bit to avoid hitting your saw, but the saw tends to come loose easily enough. I should add that I'm not cutting those monster trees, the biggest I've cut has been about 30".

 

[ScotO]

Its very, very hard to determine your particular situation here.....especially without detailed pictures. For us to give you hints/suggestions is not only hard to do, but can be dangerous, without being there to see exactly what is being done.

I do tree removal as a side job/hobby, and I can tell you every tree has unique circumstances/scenarios that make each job "its own".

Be careful, when things go south, it happens in a hurry!

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, given the interest and help I'll take some debriefing pictures. The subject trunk is still attached to the tree. This will come down in cooler weather, as I said I want to leave the tree that's left with some flat cuts to deal with rather than shattered wood.

I can now get my mower to my lower meadow and plan to go down this evening after the sun has been behind the trees for a hour or so, but expect it wilIl still be 90 degrees But driving a mower in the shade doesn't work me very hard.

Some of the sections I wedge cut to get the dangerous length down on the ground are still attached. I have a Cannt with the lift bracket and will rotate those off the ground before cutting clear through and cutting into 16" rounds. Green Ash is very heavy and makes rater good firewood when seasoned. If I get this split before August is out it may be ready by February.

I deal with the difficult to split crotch areas by making them very "thin" rounds. I figure if I cut a round at about 6" and it is upwards of 2' in diameter it will season okay without splitting. Just an estimate. I'll take a tape measure down to get an accurate diameter readding.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Not sure it adds much value but I post here 5 pictures to help show what I tried to explain with words. This is what it looks like after I got it all down on the ground, save one or two more pieces yet to be cut out of the tree. The first pic shows the path/road that the limb was laying into, coming toward the camera from the stub about 6' up at the back of the picture. The second pic shows my rescue Craftsman Chain, the Husky was already taken to the shed, some other tools and a section of the trunk still needing through cutting - see Cannt which will be used. The third shows the rounds nearest the mother tree, the next the wedge cut which was on the compression side and the undercut which is not all the way through. The fifth/last picture is the remaining branch yet to be cut from tree. In the third picture you can see another branch/trunk to the left of the one that came down. I think that is enough to keep itself and the main trunk alive for years. I also note in the fifth picture the dark area on the bottom of the hanging piece. That is the only rot in that branch and it had a nest of ants in it. This no doubt was the "straw" that broke the branche's back when the weeks of soaking rain made the branch just too heavy to hold.

 

[smokinj]

Not sure it adds much value but I post here 5 pictures to help show what I tried to explain with words. This is what it looks like after I got it all down on the ground, save one or two more pieces yet to be cut out of the tree. The first pic shows the path/road that the limb was laying into, coming toward the camera from the stub about 6' up at the back of the picture. The second pic shows my rescue Craftsman Chain, the Husky was already taken to the shed, some other tools and a section of the trunk still needing through cutting - see Cannt which will be used. The third shows the rounds nearest the mother tree, the next the wedge cut which was on the compression side and the undercut which is not all the way through. The fifth/last picture is the remaining branch yet to be cut from tree. In the third picture you can see another branch/trunk to the left of the one that came down. I think that is enough to keep itself and the main trunk alive for years. I also note in the fifth picture the dark area on the bottom of the hanging piece. That is the only rot in that branch and it had a nest of ants in it. This no doubt was the "straw" that broke the branche's back when the weeks of soaking rain made the branch just too heavy to hold.

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With out picks its just a story! Nice job...........

 

[Ashful]

Wait... I thought you said you had a "large" ash?!?

 

[ScotO]

Wait... I thought you said you had a "large" ash?!?

I don't even see an ash there....I'm pretty sure I see a cherry there!

 

[Ashful]

You're right! That ain't ash bark. Are the leaves in the lower right of pic 3 from said tree?

 

[ScotO]

You're right! That ain't ash bark. Are the leaves in the lower right of pic 3 from said tree?

not sure about the leaves, but that sapwood, heartwood and bark are cherry!!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I too had done a double take when I saw the pictures. Went back to the first post and sure enough; ash. Well, all is not bad because cherry is still good firewood. This also explains the ant problem.

Jerry, thanks for posting those pictures and hopefully this is also a good learning experience for you. Do not feel badly that you misjudged what kind of a tree you had. Remember, every one of us had to start from scratch and at one time all we knew is that there are trees and they make firewood or lumber. So this thread is a great one for you.

 

[ScotO]

It wasn't all that many years ago I wasn't in "the know" on all my tree species......I still get them wrong from time to time (especially guessing some of the western species on here, just ask Stihlhead)

Either way, it looks as if you are doing a decent job taking the cherry tree apart. One thing to remember is on branches, you should make a small undercut on them before doing the top cut, so they break free when you cut through them. Especially if you are tied off to the tree right below the branch you are cutting.....

Again, I won't give too much advise on here in regards to cutting down risky trees, there simply are too many variables when doing tree work, and I would feel horrible if something went wrong. The best advice I can give you is to go with your gut......if that little voice in the back of your head is saying "you'd better not do it that way", then 9 times out of 10 you should listen to it. Take your time when doing risky cuts, evaluate the entire situation, and always be safe rather than sorry.....

 

[Ashful]

I still have trouble telling standing ash from walnut, when the leaves fall off, and I have about a dozen of each in my own back yard. I know... look for the opposing branches.

Top the OP: if ain't something I've already cut myself (oak, walnut, ash, maple, cherry), I'm completely lost myself. Heck... I still mess up the ones I should know.