Salt Accumulation in Woodstove? (Pics)

[Beave]

Hello,

First of all, thanks to everyone for the very informative site. I've been lurking for awhile and thanks to all of you, I've become a very informed woodburner.

This is my first season (stove installed in October) and as such, my 4 cords in the backyard won't be ready until next winter. So, we've been using purchased wood this year. I've bought a cord of maple/fir/cedar, and also about half a pallet of Home Fire logs. Both of which I have been very pleased with. Here are a couple pics of our stove:

My father-in-law wanted to contribute to our dwindling purchased supply for a Xmas gift, and knew of a local mill outlet in Tacoma that sells compressed wood bricks. The pallet was $225 with a claimed 17 million BTU. The bricks were dry and smelled strongly of pine. Two pickup trucks later, they are stacked in my garage and we have been burning them for about a week.
This is the outfit we purchased them from:
http://www.lowpricedcedar.com/product_detail.php?prodid=43#
No response from the distributor yet. I have asked who manufactures them so I can use the info to further track issues.

The bricks burn well and we are happy with the heat output. However, we have started noticing white accumulations on the inner side walls of the stove. Another thing we have noticed is that the upper brick supports and secondary tubes get a glossy hue mid-way through the burn. I remember reading somewhere that these parts should never be "shiny", but no explanation as to "why" was given. Take a look at the pics..... Salty??

Can anyone who has experienced a salt corroded woodstove put my mind at ease, or should I be reloading these bricks into the truck and getting a refund? And, if this is a salt problem, could I safely use the remainder of the pallet and just never buy them again? And even more, if it is salt, can I just scrape it off and prevent further corrosion, or is my stove already permanently damaged and doomed to decay?

Thanks to Google, I dug up this interesting piece. Not sure if the same company produces these logs, but from what I have found, I am guessing they are. Sounds like the logs are floated to the mill, in saltwater.
http://www.mikepellegrini.com/weblog/2008/04/manke_clean_burn_wood_pellets.php

I'm going to get real "technical" tomorrow morning after things have cooled down. Index-finger-to-mouth method will probably be the most telling. But, if it is salt, I still need to know what I can do about it.

Thanks in advance for any input,
Stay warm,
Beave

 

[savageactor7]

Huh...I dunno, why would you suspect salt? Salt in metal is bad next time the stove goes cold just wipe a wet finger and do a taste test. Personally I doubt it's salt, different species of wood leave different residues in stoves. What I suspect is you're looking at the residue from a real hot fire. Sure was considerate of you FIL to fix you up with those bricks.

 

[Alpine]

I only burn regular old logwood and I get a very similar looking white deposit at times. It seems to disappear on it's own wilth no ill effects. I didn't notice any evience of the white deposit or corrosion when I cleaned my SS liner this summer so I'm not worried about it. I haven't been able to correlate the deposit with a particular type of wood and I suspect that is a harmless combustion product.

 

[ROBERT F]

Looks alot like my firebox will after smaller, more centrally burnt fires. center of box stays clean, deposits fom on edges of firebox. Even if the bricks were made from logs floated down a salt lane, highly doubt that the concentration of salt in the brick is high enough to have left that much deposit already. Maybe taste some of the brick after taste of the firebox crud? anyhow, keep us posted. And welcome to the forum Beave.

 

[DAKSY]

Looks like a normal deposit to me, not salt, but I spoze a taste test will confirm that...
OTOH, I don't think you should have that nice big TV that close to your unit...
I know I'd have it a LOT farther away than it is...

 

[yanksforever]

Did you monitor the stove temps? Could it be a sign of a little bit of overfire or over temping? Keep an eye on it!

 

[Hurricane]

Nice setup, and welcome.
I agree with the others that it is not likely salt. I see that in my insert quite often and it comes and goes depending on the temp of the fire and type of wood I am burning. I do not think it will or has harmed the stove in any way. You can taste it if you like but I do not think there is any need to.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Looks like a normal deposit to me, not salt, but I spoze a taste test will confirm that...
OTOH, I don't think you should have that nice big TV that close to your unit...
I know I'd have it a LOT farther away than it is...

+1 on moving the TV further away.

 

[fredarm]

Did you monitor the stove temps? Could it be a sign of a little bit of overfire or over temping? Keep an eye on it!

+1 I don't seel a thermometer on your stove. Those compressed sawdust bricks burn hot.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I suspect they would be Manke's given their Tacoma mfg. locale. Not sure that this is salt, but kind of doubt it. Who knows, as a test, I would taste it too. Their pellets have less than 250PPM chlorides.

Looks like I need to get a batch of these and do another round of tests in the big boy.

 

[Beave]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Both my wife and I gave it a taste test this morning. Yuck. It did taste bitter and salty, but I wonder if any woodstove crust would taste different? But anyway, good news: I fed her cordwood today, and it was as if someone put a fresh coat of black paint inside the stove. (Of course I am talking about after the black startup soot was burned off)

The white stuff for the most part just disappeared. I threw a couple more of the bricks inside later in the day, and the white crust came back to the full extent that it had been last night. From what you guys say, sounds like this might be normal and just specific to the wood species. I can't imagine that just two bricks would reaccumulate all that "salt" that I was seeing. At this point I am tempted to resume burning and maybe just never buy another pallet of this particular brand. Out of everything I have tried so far, Home Fire logs get my vote when it comes to purchased fuel and I'd happily pay the $75 dollar spread if my father-in-law ever offers again. (Thanks Jerry!)

I knew I would get a few ribs about the TV next to the stove! My wife and I were both concerned about it as well. But, with the stove off, the LCD screen on its own gets up to bewteen 90-100 degrees, and we have never seen it above 110 degrees when the woodstove is raging. The pictures make it look absurd, but it's really not as close or as bad as it looks.

And I do constantly monitor temps (almost to an obsessive level), both with a stovetop thermometer and an IR laser thermo. Our stovetop sweetspot is anywhere from 400-600. Only twice have I hit 650; Never more than that. 650 feels nuclear!

Thanks for all the suggestions folks, I appreciate the advice,

Beave

 

[CarbonNeutral]

If it was salt, it wouldn't have burned off, I would guess.

 

[cycloxer]

On occassion I have seen a white build-up like this in my stove. I maybe don't have quite as much, but it looks identical. It seems to happen when I am burning wood that is not fully dry, particularly oak. Strangely, it also seems to happen sometimes when I am burning down a large bed of coals and I have the air wide open. I notice it on the front glass. It wipes right off with a wet rag w/ no effort. So, it is something burning out of the wood.

 

[logger]

Likely just the changes in temps.. those bricks burn very hot as someone mentioned. My grill gets the same white stuff on it after grilling a bunch of times. Glad you found the cause.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

I also get white deposits like that in my (EPA) stove too when I'm burning properly. If I dampen the air intake too much I'll get a black creosote deposit in the same areas and on the glass, after burning hot again for a while it all turns white again.
My best guess is that the black stuff is un-burned creosote deposits, and the white stuff is burned off creosote deposits (ash).
Personally I would rather have the white than the black.
I have an old pre-EPA (smoke dragon) stove in my shop, I can't burn it clean enough to get white deposits,,, only the black stuff.

 

[Highbeam]

Hard to believe that lennox/country uses regular worm drive hose clamps to hold the tubes in the stove. I do like how they use regular firebrick for the ceiling of the firebox though. Country has always been a big local brand, good to see a new one.

I saw those firebricks on craigslist for like 79 cents apiece from the mill. Good to hear that they are working for you. Do you get much time out of them?

I also like your thermometer. It has a lot of low end where my stove spends most of its time.

 

[begreen]

I also like your thermometer. It has a lot of low end where my stove spends most of its time.

China makes these thermometers for vendor customization. Drolet also sells them. I got one for a friend from TrueValue and was surprised to see it was reasonably accurate.

http://www.thegreathardwarestore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=639452&click=2744

 

[Beave]

Thanks for even more good news about my concerns. I am full-steam ahead with these bricks!

Although I am very happy with my stove, I agree that the hose clamps on the secondary burn tubes are kind of cheesy. But on the other hand, I do like readily replaceable/available service parts. I'm torn on the brick ceiling. We were looking at either a Quadrafire 3100 or this Country C210. I did like the Quads ceramic baffle plate ceiling, but come replacement time, we will probably like plain old firebrick just fine ($$). Also, the owners manual for the Quad has more time and energy put into it. The welding and grinding/finishing is also superior on the Quad, or at least it was in the showroom. Both the showroom Country, and the one we had installed have some pretty horrible welding in places, mostly on the interior. But, I must admit, I have been a welder by trade for 11 years, and even used to run some wire for Travis Industries. So my eye may be a little more keen than it need be. Besides, the worst of it has been buried in ashes from Day 1, so I hardly give it a thought anymore. The $1000 difference steered us in the Country direction, and I couldn't be happier. It's a pretty little stove and the heat output is very well matched to successfully heating our entire house. It was nice to be able to afford some gold trim, gold doors and a blower, too =)
The $1000 extra on the Quad would have us looking at a flat black stove with no blower.

@Highbeam - At $225 per pallet, I would recommend steering clear of the Craigslist deal. With 605 bricks per pallet, I paid about 0.37 each. Given my limited experience with manufactured fuel, I would guesstimate that they last about 1/2 as long as Home Fire logs, which puts them about on par with most other brick fuel out there (from what I have read). Or a better comparison maybe, is if I load up some Home Fire logs before bed, I still have some usable coals to start a fire in the morning, but the bricks will definitely be fully ashed and extinguished. But, at $225 per pallet (vs $300 for Home Fire) and a claimed 17,000,000 btu vs. Home Fires 15,000,000........ Well, you got a choice to make. One last kicker, the bricks are way easier to start than Home Fire logs.

@Be Green - Your fuel reviews on the wiki are very helpful. If you are ever in our neck of the woods, let me know ahead of time and I'll give you a load of the bricks for a review, since you have already set a standard for testing etc.

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you updated if anything changes,
Beave

 

[begreen]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Both my wife and I gave it a taste test this morning. Yuck. It did taste bitter and salty, but I wonder if any woodstove crust would taste different? But anyway, good news: I fed her cordwood today, and it was as if someone put a fresh coat of black paint inside the stove. (Of course I am talking about after the black startup soot was burned off)

Beave

I'm pretty sure that tan powder is just clean burn soot. When I had the pellet stove I would see that too and I catch it in the T6 after a nice hot burn. Don't worry about it.

 

[Highbeam]

Maybe it was 37 cents each. I forget but I recall the ad and recall thinking that they were cheaper than the alternatives out there. That country, if I recall correctly, has the huge paddle fan on the rear of the freestanding model that moved tons of air quietly. Is the squirrel cage insert version the same way?

 

[Beave]

Nope. The squirrel cage motor is fairly noisy. Thank goodness for surround sound! Anything over medium speed is too distracting. But, as with most inserts, heat output is a night and day difference when the blower is on, even at the lowest speeds.

The mounting design for the blower leaves a bit to be desired. I think they bank on the insert blower sitting flush on the hearth and being squeezed in between the hearth and the ashlip of the stove. As you can see, ours is elevated above the hearth and the two mounting bolts and thin metal body are not adequate for holding the blower up. We developed a nasty vibration that would come and go at different speeds as the stove moved through its heating and cooling cycles. I had to shim it in a couple places to correct the problem. Not what I would expect for $300.

After the burning season is over, I'm going to take it off and give it a good coat of stove paint. All those multicolored components behind the mesh screen are pretty unattractive.

Geez, maybe I could go work for Country/Lennox in their R&D department. I have a ton of ideas that would improve the stove and not change the manufacturing cost.

But until then, I'll be happy with my warm house and low heating bills. And overall, I think it's a pretty nice looking stove.

Beave