Satisfying

[snobuilder]

Offsets are not a great option. But at times they are the only one. But it won't make your setup any less dangerous

IMO the most dangerous component in my build is the EPA instigated stove itself. So hard for the end user to easily control and feel confident about.
The more I read and also experience with my stove, I think it is the air wash that is making these stoves scary to operate. The amount of air needed to keep he glass clea also is causing too much O to the fire. not so much the secondary air system

 

[stoveliker]

The air wash did not dictate the primary air range. The firebox design did. The airwash is only a secondary use of the air: if we introduce it to the firebox, then why not use it as a blanket to shield the glass before we use their in the fire...

 

[bholler]

IMO the most dangerous component in my build is the EPA instigated stove itself. So hard for the end user to easily control and feel confident about.
The more I read and also experience with my stove, I think it is the air wash that is making these stoves scary to operate. The amount of air needed to keep he glass clea also is causing too much O to the fire. not so much the secondary air system

Your stove is no longer an EPA certified stove or a listed stove. You cut a giant hole in the bottom of it and installed a very questionably sealed ash pan.

Then installed it while completely ignoring manufacturers specs.

So honestly your experience with that stove means nothing at all.

 

[snobuilder]

Again surface temps of that metal means absolutely nothing. You removed most of the structure designed to protect the surrounding combustibles. So you now have absolutely no idea what's going on behind what's left of that fireplace. And your hearth is nowhere near the r value required by your stove manufacturer.

You can try to justify your actions any way you want but it is extremely unsafe.

of course the surface temps matter what else besides that temp might cause a problem? Nothing I have posted shows me trying to justify anything to anyone.... LOL ... I already know it works and is safe . Next move is to bring it out into the room for ease of radiation and room for a larger pot of chili.

 

[snobuilder]

The air wash did not dictate the primary air range. The firebox design did. The airwash is only a secondary use of the air: if we introduce it to the firebox, then why not use it as a blanket to shield the glass before we use their in the fire...

IMO it takes too much air in an effort to keep the glass clean which is probably consumer driven in the design thinking....end user wanting a clean view of wood burning.

 

[bholler]

of course the surface temps matter what else besides that temp might cause a problem? Nothing I have posted shows me trying to justify anything to anyone.... LOL ... I already know it works and is safe . Next move is to bring it out into the room for ease of radiation and room for a larger pot of chili.

You clearly have no idea how heat transfer convective cooling etc work if that is what you think. Which is why you can't understand why your setup is so dangerous.

This entire thread is you trying to justify your unsafe decisions.

 

[bholler]

IMO it takes too much air in an effort to keep the glass clean which is probably consumer driven in the design thinking....end user wanting a clean view of wood burning.

What is that opinion based upon.

 

[snobuilder]

The air wash did not dictate the primary air range. The firebox design did. The airwash is only a secondary use of the air: if we introduce it to the firebox, then why not use it as a blanket to shield the glass before we use their in the fire...

IMO it is the volume of air needed to keep the glass clean that is beyond what a controllable fire requires hence the hundreds of end users coming here over and over to get answers as to why their stove gets scary hot. After a while, and endless blaming of the end user as doing things incorrectly, (default setting here) you have to ask if these stoves are a safe design to unleash on the large spectrum of consumers who are stuck with these types of stoves as their only choice in a new unit. Safety first.

 

[stoveliker]

I can't find it now, but I read there were 250,000 (new) wood stoves sold in the USA last year.
The 200 or so on here complaining hardly qualifies as a basis for your erroneous statement.

The stove is not designed with the airwash dictating the airflow quantity. Burning characteristics are. Too much air would pump too much heat into the flue, lowering the efficiency and burn times - i.e. the two technical aspects that the consumer demands (long burn time, lotsa heat without using much wood).

 

[bholler]

IMO it is the volume of air needed to keep the glass clean that is beyond what a controllable fire requires hence the hundreds of end users coming here over and over to get answers as to why their stove gets scary hot. After a while, and endless blaming of the end user as doing things incorrectly, (default setting here) you have to ask if these stoves are a safe design to unleash on the large spectrum of consumers who are stuck with these types of stoves as their only choice in a new unit. Safety first.

Again you are basing your opinion solely upon your experience with a very low end Asian import stove that you heavily modified. Yes some people have issues with over firing. But most of the time that is because the stove is not installed according to manufacturers specifications. Or it isn't actually an over fire it is just a nervous new burner.

 

[bholler]

Incase you didn't notice this site is not a good general sample of American stove users. It is stove geeks and people who came here with problems they need help with. The majority of people are just happily burning their stoves

 

[snobuilder]

I can't find it now, but I read there were 250,000 (new) wood stoves sold in the USA last year.
The 200 or so on here complaining hardly qualifies as a basis for your erroneous statement.

The stove is not designed with the airwash dictating the airflow quantity. Burning characteristics are. Too much air would pump too much heat into the flue, lowering the efficiency and burn times - i.e. the two technical aspects that the consumer demands (long burn time, lotsa heat without using much wood).

No telling how many are sitting unused after the thing scared the owners into not using it. I spoke to several folks trying to sell their nearly new units. One guy admitted that he was going back to his 25 year old stove because the new one was a little "trickier" to run. But from what I learned on here it was most likely his fault even though he thought he knew how to heat with wood after 25 years.

 

[snobuilder]

Incase you didn't notice this site is not a good general sample of American stove users. It is stove geeks and people who came here with problems they need help with. The majority of people are just happily burning their stoves

Sure, I'm not disparaging anyone. This site is a huge mix of all types of wood heat enthusiasts. I am simply responding to the constant barrage of negative attacks mostly coming from you, sir.

 

[bholler]

Sure, I'm not disparaging anyone. This site is a huge mix of all types of wood heat enthusiasts. I am simply responding to the constant barrage of negative attacks mostly coming from you, sir.

How are looking out for your safety or expecting you to back up your claims that all modern stoves are uncontroable death traps negative attacks?

 

[bholler]

No telling how many are sitting unused after the thing scared the owners into not using it. I spoke to several folks trying to sell their nearly new units. One guy admitted that he was going back to his 25 year old stove because the new one was a little "trickier" to run. But from what I learned on here it was most likely his fault even though he thought he knew how to heat with wood after 25 years.

No it was probably the dealer and or installers fault for not giving him the tools to make the stove work properly. Possibly his as well but we don't know because we have no info

 

[bholler]

IMO it is the volume of air needed to keep the glass clean that is beyond what a controllable fire requires hence the hundreds of end users coming here over and over to get answers as to why their stove gets scary hot. After a while, and endless blaming of the end user as doing things incorrectly, (default setting here) you have to ask if these stoves are a safe design to unleash on the large spectrum of consumers who are stuck with these types of stoves as their only choice in a new unit. Safety first.

In addition tube stoves (which are really the only ones you are referring to are not the only option available. The whole issue comes down to the fact that stoves need to be installed to spec and operated properly. If that is done the vast majority are very controllable. Yes there are without a doubt some pretty crappy stoves available. But that doesn't mean all of them are.

 

[kennyp2339]

This thread keeps going in circles of nothing and will only lead to others making bad decisions, I think Im done here.

 

[bholler]

This thread keeps going in circles of nothing and will only lead to others making bad decisions, I think Im done here.

I am hoping it serves as a cautionary tale for others.

 

[john26]

IMO the most dangerous component in my build is the EPA instigated stove itself. So hard for the end user to easily control and feel confident about.

That would be a scarier set up with a pre EPA stove like a Fisher

The more I read and also experience with my stove, I think it is the air wash that is making these stoves scary to operate. The amount of air needed to keep he glass clea also is causing too much O to the fire. not so much the secondary air system

I have not seen that be the case in higher end EPA stoves. I get little to no yellowed orange flames down low on the fire with vigorous blue secondary on top. My Lopi Freedom would have soot on the glass and be on the verge of overfire or slightly into overfire. My epa stoves have over fire issues due to the 28' flu. The situation was remedy with a flu damper.

 

[john26]

First pic non EPA wood furnace with a crack due to overfire from a unexperienced operator furnace was properly installed to spec, but not the operators brain. (My Ex)
Second pic bad quality by US Stove that could very easily cause an overfire. There are three slots with no welds on them. This has nothing to due with air wash secondary burn or EPA just bad quality control. Remedy the issue with fire brick be hind slots.

 

[snobuilder]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

 

[bholler]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

Again what are you basing your theory on?

 

[stoveliker]

Lol. I've read the same was said about the introduction of the steam engine and trains...

 

[firefighterjake]

If my memory serves me . . . and it is only anecdotal . . . most fire calls we have been on involving woodstoves have not involved run-away EPA stoves. Now on the other hand, bad maintenance (allowing a chimney to get plugged up with creosote), bad operations (not burning at the right temp, burning unseasoned wood, improper disposal of ash) and bad installations (no chimney liner, stove too close to combustibles or vice versa, improper venting) have all been seen . . . and generally this has been with older stoves.

 

[john26]

The more you guys pile on the more evident these new stoves are dangerous for the gen, public to have in their homes constantly blaming the end user is laughable.

Why did my pre EPA stove crack?
Out of all the stoves I have used the pre EPA stove is the the only one that overfired and caused damage it is also the only stove I have ever had a chimney fire with.