Secondary air hole alignment

[ddahlgren]

On my Avalon Pendleton 790 when I bought it used the secondary air tube was loose and broken away from the fitting on the side of the stove. I did a repair that worked for about a month and failed. I did a much better job the second time around the end of December and have had no troubles since. I have had a bunch of problems getting a secondary burn and blamed it on the wood. Well a friend gave me a half dozen pieces from their pile that burns fine and can get close to a secondary burn even with a 500 degree stove top but just not get there. The fire starts the burn and slowly goes out over the period of 5 minutes. I am wondering if the second time I fixed it i got the holes aimed incorrectly. There is no way to align them as Avalon intended as that is the part broken. My repair is some cut pieces of steel and some hose clamps so can be rotated to any angle.

Looking the manual the holes look aimed down towards the door at an approximate 45 degree angle. Currently the are horizontal aiming at the glass. Is it possible I am not getting the air where it needs to go to feed the fire when closed all way down so the fire goes out from lack of any usable air?

Edit / Update
I just put an ECO Brick on a deep bed of coals and let it go for a couple of minutes stove top 500F and no secondary burn from that either. I am thinking there is nothing much drier than that.

 

[webby3650]

What part is broken? Can you post a picture of the part? The earlier Travis stoves had little push pins that held the tube in position, they often fell out. They re-designed it using a roll pin instead. On the right hand side there is a collar that slides over the tube, this acts as a slip, so you can remove the tube. Once the holes are lined up between the manifold and the tube, you drive the pin in. This keeps it in the right position. Unless it's part of the actual manifold, all these parts are available from Travis.

 

[ddahlgren]

What part is broken? Can you post a picture of the part? The earlier Travis stoves had little push pins that held the tube in position, they often fell out. They re-designed it using a roll pin instead. On the right hand side there is a collar that slides over the tube, this acts as a slip, so you can remove the tube. Once the holes are lined up between the manifold and the tube, you drive the pin in. This keeps it in the right position. Unless it's part of the actual manifold, all these parts are available from Travis.

The previous owner either took the pin out or it fell out and collar slid over and rusted to the stove from be.ing stored outside. I did not discover this until well into the heating season when the tube fell about 2 inches while loading hot. it is going to take some serious effort to get it not rusted together. I worked at getting it loose with some PB blaster and a propane torch with no luck. I have a local store trying to source the tube and sleeve for installing next year or if a break for a couple days in the heating season and work. My current fix is a couple pieces of angle iron and some stainless hose clamps. it is quite secure and does not leak as i can get the tube in about 1/16 of an inch so it is a mechanical brace. But it allows freedom in rotation before tightening the clamps.

Hope this paints a picture for you. I ended up the first time rotating the tube to a point where it felt like it used to be as the free spot that turned easiest. Second time the stove was pretty warm so a quick add another clap and go thing. I am letting it cool way down and angle the holes back down to 45 degrees again and see what happens. Watching the fire again after posting i watched what was going on very carefully and it seemed like the gases skipped right past the tube and out colling the fire box down and losing some draft. after that it is a downward spiral until fire is out.

Dave

 

[webby3650]

Unless the baffle is out of place, the gases shouldn't be able to skip past the tubes. They should fire even if they are pointed up. They need to point down and slightly forward, if they point up they will overfire the baffle support pieces.
Are you sure the baffle is intact and correctly placed?

 

[ddahlgren]

Unless the baffle is out of place, the gases shouldn't be able to skip past the tubes. They should fire even if they are pointed up. They need to point down and slightly forward, if they point up they will overfire the baffle support pieces.
Are you sure the baffle is intact and correctly placed?

I will double check but made out of fire brick and physically will not sit flat in any way if installed incorrectly as they are cut to just fit the spot and easy to spot something as thick as a fire brick out of place. letting it cool down to a workable temperature and turning the tube is my first experiment. Watching the flames and gases they just seem to skip past the openings for the air.

 

[webby3650]

I have re-built several Travis baffles. And, yes things can get out of place, but the by-pass usually won't work though. Gaps in the brick is really the only way that gasses are skipping the past the tubes. If air is getting to the secondary tubes, they will work, in any position.

 

[ddahlgren]

I have re-built several Travis baffles. And, yes things can get out of place, but the by-pass usually won't work though. Gaps in the brick is really the only way that gasses are skipping the past the tubes. If air is getting to the secondary tubes, they will work, in any position.

Well the wood is well seasoned the chimney cleaned about 2 weeks ago and nothing of any interest and by a local sweep rather than me. stove top temps in the 500 to 575 range what gives then? It is certainly cold out and if i open the air it blazes like crazy and plenty of draft. Your thoughts?

 

[webby3650]

Is there smoke coming out of the flue? I really don't see too much action in the secondary tubes until I turn the air down. I get it up to temp, lower the air, then the secondary fire goes nuts!

 

[ddahlgren]

Is there smoke coming out of the flue? I really don't see too much action in the secondary tubes until I turn the air down. I get it up to temp, lower the air, then the secondary fire goes nuts!

Do we agree 500+ is hot enough for stove top temp to start. I am going to twist to 45 degrees down as spent the last few hours letting the stove go cold enough to work on it. Currently they light and go out after several minutes with nothing on the tubes or fire box then smoke and smolder. I will split a 3 year old seasoned piece and give a MC inside and out to verify that.

 

[webby3650]

That's hot enough. Even without tubes, the fire shouldn't smoke and smolder if it's on high. Check that MC.

 

[ddahlgren]

That's hot enough. Even without tubes, the fire shouldn't smoke and smolder if it's on high. Check that MC.

Hi zero smoke until the last little bit on shut down to light secondaries then peters out to smolder..

 

[ddahlgren]

!4% outside 21.5 inside on a 6 inch split the problem?

 

[webby3650]

!4% outside 21.5 inside on a 6 inch split the problem?

Not sure, but anything over 20% is undesirable. That's a big difference from the inside to the outside on a 6" slit. It's more common to see that kinda difference on a larger round, like a 10" round.

 

[ddahlgren]

Finally got around to moving it using weld gloves and working fast on a somewhat cooled stove. It works better by a long shot angled 45 degrees down roughly aiming the holes to the middle of the galss but still not right. I blame the rest on quality of wood and getting spoiled with the good stuff at the begining of the season.