Selkirk vs Simpson

[RustyShackleford]

My recent experience, trying to figure out a double-wall connector for
my new Blaze King to an existing Selkirk chimney, has caused me to
form some very distinct impressions about these two companies - in
particular, their customer service attitude.

When I called Selkirk, I had little trouble getting through to a knowledgeable
technical guy. When I told him I wanted to use Simpson pipe (because it allows
a smaller offset with two 45-degree elbows, 4" versus 6"), the guy was very helpful,
said it would probably work, and told me how to do it with Selkirk DSP and that
Simpson DVL would probably work.

When I called Simpson, I given a flat-out "cover your ass" answer that you cannot
mix the brands. I explained that my chimney is "all Selkirk" and that my connector
pipe would be "all Simpson" and that I was under the impression it was ok to change
brands at the transition between connector pipe and chimney-proper, and the person
was adamant. When I asked "why ?", they said I could speak to tech support. Turns
out I couldn't speak to tech support. Not possible, directly. I could leave them a
message, which they said they'd answer in 24 hours, and they did, but I was not at
the phone, and so the cycle begins again.

IF it were not for that 2" (off reduced offset, and thus the distance the stove protrudes
into my living space), there is NO question about which company I would choose to do
business with. For those of you in less constrained situations (e.g. you're building a
chimney from scratch), I'd take my experience to heart.

 

[daryl]

From what I found is that the only way too hook up there DVL pipe is with aCC-C close clearence connector.Being there support boxes and thimbles are the only ones that accept a CC-C that is the only pipe it approved for. Lawyers

 

[summit]

so you have a selkirk chim and are trying to connect simpson double wall? you should have a DSAC or a CPA adaptor on the selkirk chimney: the simpson pipe shoult fit it female end up, crimps down.. put int a few screws and good!: its double wall pipe, it won't work differently with any insulated chimney if you secure it properly (3 screws per connection, or an approved clamp/locking system).. if you have a DSAC, you may need to cut it down as it is about 14" long.. the CPA has a perfect 2" crimp that fits into every DW pipe i have ever encountered.

 

[Highbeam]

Lot's of acronyms there.

To be honest, I would give up the 2 inches to avoid any issues with compatibility. What's two inches? Like half a dog turd.

 

[daryl]

What simpson dura vent is saying you can only use their CC-C (Close clearance connector) to connect to a class a system. Nothing else.

 

[Hogwildz]

Most manufacturers require use of all their product for a few reasons.
First obviously is to make a sale on their product containing all of their components.
Second, their system must pass certain testing to meet code and be approved. They are tested as a complete system produced by that manufacturer, and that is how they are listed as code worthy & pass the test.
If you mix, now it is a system set up that was not tested as so, and not necessary any more or less dangerous, but still not tested and pass/approved that way.
Third, the manufacturer warrants the system as a system of their components. They can't be expected to warrant someone elses product. And if a failure happens due to the mix & match, they cannot be assumed to take on the liability for any resulting damage, death, destruction etc.
Does this mean your bad if you make it work with what you find, no, and it may be fine. But it prolly will void the warranty.
Do what ya gotta do, make sure its safe, and happy burning.

 

[RustyShackleford]

so you have a selkirk chim and are trying to connect simpson double wall? you should have a DSAC or a CPA adaptor on the selkirk chimney: the simpson pipe shoult fit it female end up, crimps down.. put int a few screws and good!: its double wall pipe, it won't work differently with any insulated chimney if you secure it properly (3 screws per connection, or an approved clamp/locking system)..

This is pretty much what the Selkirk techie told me.

To be honest, I would give up the 2 inches to avoid any issues with compatibility. What’s two inches? Like half a dog turd.

More like 2/3 of a dog turd. Good point.

If you mix, now it is a system set up that was not tested as so, and not necessary any more or less dangerous, but still not tested and pass/approved that way.
Third, the manufacturer warrants the system as a system of their components. They can’t be expected to warrant someone elses product.

Blah blah blah - lawyer talk. I understand the point. I also appreciate that Selkirk is willing to do something
besides parrot what their lawyers say - the point of my post.

 

[blel]

"I also appreciate that Selkirk is willing to do something
besides parrot what their lawyers say - the point of my post."

Last year I put in a Selkirk class A chim and on several occasions I called their Tech support. Every time they were extremely helpful and friendly. Very easy to deal with. Plus their product was a fair amount cheaper than Simpson.

 

[Fsappo]

I'm pretty sure Duravent, Metalbestos and American Metals are all made by Hart and Cooley anyhow. The post about having a CPA or DSAC adapter and using any brand of doublewall interior pipe is the closest to the truth. I just wouldn't mix two different double wall interior pipe brands together.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Last year I put in a Selkirk class A chim and on several occasions I called their Tech support. Every time they were extremely helpful and friendly. Very easy to deal with. Plus their product was a fair amount cheaper than Simpson.

If it was Simpson, you would have had to leave a message, and then hope you're by your
phone when they call back sometime in the next 24 hours.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm pretty sure Duravent, Metalbestos and American Metals are all made by Hart and Cooley anyhow.

Maybe, but they're evidently not EXACTLY the same - the Selkirk versus Simpson double-wall interior pipe -
because the latter allows 4" minimum offset versus 6" for Selkirk.

The post about having a CPA or DSAC adapter and using any brand of doublewall interior pipe is the closest to the truth.

BTW, what ARE CPA and DSAC ? My Selkirk chimney has a pipe sticking out the bottom, about 14" long,
and in the old installation, a 6" single-wall pipe fits snugly OVER it. I'm hoping the double-wall will do
the same. I assume this thing is either a CPA or DSAC ! The Selkirk techie said it was tapered, which
maybe it is, looks like the circumference increases about 1/8" from bottom to top - not much of a taper.

I just wouldn't mix two different double wall interior pipe brands together.

No, don't intend to, and can't see why anyone would.

Anyhow, this is all covered in another thread I started, main point here is the customer-service
discrepancy ...

 

[gpcollen1]

If you mix, now it is a system set up that was not tested as so, and not necessary any more or less dangerous, but still not tested and pass/approved that way.
Third, the manufacturer warrants the system as a system of their components. They can’t be expected to warrant someone elses product.

Blah blah blah - lawyer talk. I understand the point. I also appreciate that Selkirk is willing to do something
besides parrot what their lawyers say - the point of my post.[/quote]

So in this litigious society we live in, you really expect the manufacturer to OK what you want to do? C'mon now! And it is this that you use as the deciding factor as to which product to use. Do whatever you like but it sound silly to me.

ON top of that, did you really need someone to tell you it was 'OK'?? You apparently want to do what you want to do...so just do it without knocking a reputable and quality manufacturer for not telling you whatever you wanted to hear and tell you it was ok.

I have had exceptional service [yes - on the phone prior to purchase] from Simpson thus far on 2 installs so not sure where you are going wrong. And it was not that hard to figure out how to attach the DVL I purchased to the existing support box/chimney.

 

[summit]

I'm pretty sure Duravent, Metalbestos and American Metals are all made by Hart and Cooley anyhow.

Maybe, but they're evidently not EXACTLY the same - the Selkirk versus Simpson double-wall interior pipe -
because the latter allows 4" minimum offset versus 6" for Selkirk.

The post about having a CPA or DSAC adapter and using any brand of doublewall interior pipe is the closest to the truth.

BTW, what ARE CPA and DSAC ? My Selkirk chimney has a pipe sticking out the bottom, about 14" long,
and in the old installation, a 6" single-wall pipe fits snugly OVER it. I'm hoping the double-wall will do
the same. I assume this thing is either a CPA or DSAC ! The Selkirk techie said it was tapered, which
maybe it is, looks like the circumference increases about 1/8" from bottom to top - not much of a taper.

I just wouldn't mix two different double wall interior pipe brands together.

No, don't intend to, and can't see why anyone would.

Anyhow, this is all covered in another thread I started, main point here is the customer-service
discrepancy ...

DSAC AND CPA ARE TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF A CHIM ADAPTOR TO ATTATCH DIFFERENT PIPE: A DSAC ADAPTS TO LONG LENGTHS OF SINGLE WALL AS A TELESCOPIC CONNECTION, WHILE A CPA IS A SHORT CRIMPED ADAPTOR THAT FITS SNUG INTO THE 2" RECIEVER OF A DOUBLE WALL FEMALE SECTION. SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A DSAC

 

[John_M]

Never had to deal with Selkirk because it wasn't part of my plans. However, my experience with Simpson Customer Service and Tech Support is identical to those of Rusty-far less than adequate. IMHO, with the exception of the CC-C chimney adapter, Simpson makes an excellent Dura Tech chimney and DVL double wall pipe. I wish their Customer Support and Tech Support were as good as their products (excepting the CC-C).

John_M

 

[RustyShackleford]

So in this litigious society we live in, you really expect the manufacturer to OK what you want to do? C'mon now! And it is this that you use as the deciding factor as to which product to use. Do whatever you like but it sound silly to me.

ON top of that, did you really need someone to tell you it was 'OK'?? You apparently want to do what you want to do...so just do it without knocking a reputable and quality manufacturer for not telling you whatever you wanted to hear and tell you it was ok.

I have had exceptional service [yes - on the phone prior to purchase] from Simpson thus far on 2 installs so not sure where you are going wrong. And it was not that hard to figure out how to attach the DVL I purchased to the existing support box/chimney.

I'm not quite sure how you got the idea that I called technical-support in order to be granted
abdication of personal responsibility for the safety of my own work. I did not. I called them
for technical support. I have never seen a piece of double-wall stove-pipe; I did not even
know it existed until a month or so ago (thanks to this forum). So I was seeking very basic
information, like, is it possible to simply slip a piece of double-wall pipe over a dripless adapter,
the same as you do with single-wall, or is some sort of special fitting required ? Is there a
subtle difference in diameter between the Selkirk an Simpson pipes that would make what
I'm trying to do unworkable ? Selkirk answered these questions; Simpson did not.

If you'd read my post carefully before criticizing me, you might also realize that I did not use
this "as the deciding factor as to which product to use"; in fact, I'm going to use Simpson
despite my experience. The point of my post is that there IS a very distinct difference in
the customer-service experience with these two companies. I stand by that assertion, and
it has been corroborated by other posters in this thread.