short burns - hard to keep above 450degrees

[kflorence]

From what I read on the site I think I am doing it all wrong with the stove. 1st time with the stove, napoleon 1101 wood insert. Had a few problems in the past but now have a full liner, insulated blanket, and block off plate. I am having a little trouble getting the temp to reach above 450, which is a stuggle at that temp. I am learning as I go. I read some talk about shutting down the primary, what is that? I only have a contol lever at the bottom of the door and slowly shut that down. Would love to reach 550-600 degrees, seems impossible but might be because I am doing this all wrong. Seems that I can only get 2 hours or so on a burn. I will put in 4-5 logs and need to reload 2 hours later. How do you get 7 hour burn times? My stove is 1.7 cubic feet so cant fit too much. Should I use large logs or smaller logs? How on earth do you get secondard burn? Is is luck? I heard it will sound like a jet engine, have not seen or heard that. Should I be closing the draft lever sooner than later and later than sooner? I guess a step by step on how you all get the temps so high will be helpful. Any response would be appreciated.

 

[Pagey]

Tell us a little more about your setup and what kind of wood you are using, please. Yes, the air control is your "primary" air, which you can control via the control lever you described. If your stove is an EPA certified, it will pull in "secondary" air, which you can't control. Secondary burn will look like a fire burning on TOP of your wood, sort of like slow, lazy northern lights dancing around up there.

 

[jadm]

kflorence- I used to have the insert you now have. Yes, the lever at the bottom is your primary air. Mine usually ran between 450* and 500*. Wood has to get heated/charred a bit before shutting down your air. Fiddle around to find out at what temp. that will be for you. I don't remember what that was anymore but I'm guessing around 350*-400*. Temps. would rise more after I had shut down.

I rarely got it shut down all the way - usually about 75% closed. You won't hear noise (noise indicates a chimney fire :ahhh. You will see the flames on top of your wood as Pagey described above.

Chances are you won't be getting 7 hour burn times. When it was below 40* out I had to keep feeding it logs to keep the temps. up. Sorry, I really don't remember how long a time I had between reloads anymore....

Sounds like you are doing fine. THis burning thing takes awhile to figure out and then there is always something else coming along to learn. I wish I had had this web site when I first got started.

 

[kflorence]

Tell us a little more about your setup and what kind of wood you are using, please. Yes, the air control is your "primary" air, which you can control via the control lever you described. If your stove is an EPA certified, it will pull in "secondary" air, which you can't control. Secondary burn will look like a fire burning on TOP of your wood, sort of like slow, lazy northern lights dancing around up there.

wood stove insert, napoleon 1101, center chimney, full liner to the top, insulated blanket, block off plate. I am currently using full seasoned wood, minimum 1 1/2 years, cut, split, stacked so i know the wood is good, fires right up. My stove is EPA certified, so thank you for the secondary air info. Secondary burn, thanks, i do see that lazy fire on top of the logs. I was not sure if doing it right but maybe my stove just wont reach the 600 + degree, wishful thinking maybe. Today i started the stove, kept the blower off, got the temp up to 525 degrees, added 3 nice splits, turned on the blower and the temp dropped to 450. I know when you add wood stove temp will drop for some time, just struggling to get it back to the 525 + stage. 30 minutes not wand still at 450 with the draft control set in 1/2 way. Am i shutting down too soon or is this just the way it goes with this stove? thanks for replying.

 

[kflorence]

kflorence- I used to have the insert you now have. Yes, the lever at the bottom is your primary air. Mine usually ran between 450* and 500*. Wood has to get heated/charred a bit before shutting down your air. Fiddle around to find out at what temp. that will be for you. I don't remember what that was anymore but I'm guessing around 350*-400*. Temps. would rise more after I had shut down.

I rarely got it shut down all the way - usually about 75% closed. You won't hear noise (noise indicates a chimney fire :ahhh. You will see the flames on top of your wood as Pagey described above.

Chances are you won't be getting 7 hour burn times. When it was below 40* out I had to keep feeding it logs to keep the temps. up. Sorry, I really don't remember how long a time I had between reloads anymore....

Sounds like you are doing fine. THis burning thing takes awhile to figure out and then there is always something else coming along to learn. I wish I had had this web site when I first got started.

i am glad to have someone who had this stove comment. thank you for your info. 450-500 seems to be mine as well. I guess those temps of 600-700 are for different stoves, wish i knew that sooner rather than later. trying to heat 1800 square feet total open concept. I dont shut down all the way either, will smolder if i do. I agree with you on the 7 hour burn time, even though the manual says so. Under perfect, unreachable conditions. I feel like i am constantly adding wood to the stove, i will go a cord a month at this point. Not sure if that is normal for most wood stove users. I also wish i found this site before buying a wood stove, would have helped alot. thanks for replying.

 

[rickw]

My old stove was a Lopi Answer insert (1.6 cu ft firebox). I wrapped it with mineral wool insulation (from McMaster-Carr) which boosted the temps. It would reach 600 degrees easy, and generally kept the glass clean. It was clearly in the secondary combustion mode. The problem was that at that temperature I was really going through the load rapidly. If I got it good and hot, then opened it up and packed it like a jigsaw puzzle I could maybe go overnight (meaning I could catch a relight in the morning) - though usually I was up at 3,4,or 5 stuffing it again. One year I put 3 cords through it, and that was hard work.
It depends what you are trying to do with it. As occasional or back-up its great; any stove is way better than a fireplace. As a primary heat source you'll be happier with a larger hearth stove. Best of luck!

 

[bfunk13]

I may open another can of worms with this but here goes.
I am still getting more heat without using the blower.
Possibly because i have a big hearth and fireplace. The brick and stone mantles are nice and warm and radiate heat well.
Give it a try, get a good fire going and a bed of coals, either turn down the blower,
or turn off all together. At least let the stove get a good hot temp before using the blower.
Not knowing how your stove operates, watch the temp frequently, dont let it get too hot with out the blower.

Ok fire away....

Brad

 

[jadm]

kflorence- A cord of wood a month sounds right. You are doing fine. Give yourself time and you will see.

Because the 1101 sticks out on the hearth about 5" it does heat without the blower as bfunk13 stated above. Try that and see if it lengthens your burn times and see what it does to the house temps.

If you are not happy with the insert you bought there was a thread here awhile back where someone recommended upgrading - go back to store where you purchased it and ask to swap it out for a larger model - paying the difference between the two. You purchased a insert with a good reputation so selling it shouldn't be a problem if you really feel it woun't meet your heating needs.

 

[madrone]

I've taken to mostly only using the blower at the coaling stage, after the secondary flames have stopped. Mostly.

 

[kflorence]

All good comments. thanks. last night before starting the fire i shut off the blower. got a good fire going, good bed of coals with in 30 minutes and temp was at 525. then started to add small logs and turned on the blower. temp dropped to 450 and staying all night at that temp. i am able to get the room the stove is in to 76 degrees but the rest of the home is about 66 degrees. i think i need a bigger stove. i will call the company i bought the stove at and see what they can do. the cost to upgrade and the cost to install again, the thoughts makes me cringe. love the stove but seems to be too small. one of my rooms right beside the wood stove room is 15x25 with cathedral ceilings with no wall between the 2 rooms, just a few steps down. i have 3 ceiling fans in that room pushing down the heat but i really am starting to think the stove just cant do the job. based on what i read on this site i should have bought a bigger stove for the space.

 

[bfunk13]

It sounds like you are doing just fine as far as operating your stove.
If you are cruising at 450, i think thats pretty good.
It took me quite a while to figure out my stove, as far as what works best. Still not sure if i have it.
Although my insert heats the whole house, i wasn't sure if it would. Sometimes they are used for a heat supplement.
I know alot of people around here who use both the furnace and a wood stove to keep the house heated.
I was lucky to have a big fireplace, so i went with the biggest insert i could fit in there.
Have you tried pushing the cold air toward the stove? My bedrooms are always cooler than the living room, but i like it that way.

Brad

 

[begreen]

Tell us a little more about your setup and what kind of wood you are using, please. Yes, the air control is your "primary" air, which you can control via the control lever you described. If your stove is an EPA certified, it will pull in "secondary" air, which you can't control. Secondary burn will look like a fire burning on TOP of your wood, sort of like slow, lazy northern lights dancing around up there.

wood stove insert, napoleon 1101, center chimney, full liner to the top, insulated blanket, block off plate. I am currently using full seasoned wood, minimum 1 1/2 years, cut, split, stacked so i know the wood is good, fires right up. My stove is EPA certified, so thank you for the secondary air info. Secondary burn, thanks, i do see that lazy fire on top of the logs. I was not sure if doing it right but maybe my stove just wont reach the 600 + degree, wishful thinking maybe. Today i started the stove, kept the blower off, got the temp up to 525 degrees, added 3 nice splits, turned on the blower and the temp dropped to 450. I know when you add wood stove temp will drop for some time, just struggling to get it back to the 525 + stage. 30 minutes not wand still at 450 with the draft control set in 1/2 way. Am i shutting down too soon or is this just the way it goes with this stove? thanks for replying.

It sounds like you are doing well with the stove, but perhaps expecting too much? 400-500 on the face of an insert is not too shabby. If this were a freestanding stove and you could put the thermometer on the stove top near the flue exit, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be reading in the 600-650 range.

To extend the burn time once the stove is hot and there is a decent coal bed established, try using larger splits of wood and pack the firebox tightly by mating the wedge faces of the splits. Use smaller wood pieces to fill in the gaps. Once the fire is going well, try closing the air control down a bit past 50%, see if 75% shut works almost as well for temps, but better for longer fires. Also, do you know what type of wood you are burning? Different species have different heat values.

How big a place are you trying to heat with the stove and how well insulated is the house? Are there a lot of windows? If yes, do you have curtains you can close over them?

 

[kflorence]

Tell us a little more about your setup and what kind of wood you are using, please. Yes, the air control is your "primary" air, which you can control via the control lever you described. If your stove is an EPA certified, it will pull in "secondary" air, which you can't control. Secondary burn will look like a fire burning on TOP of your wood, sort of like slow, lazy northern lights dancing around up there.

wood stove insert, napoleon 1101, center chimney, full liner to the top, insulated blanket, block off plate. I am currently using full seasoned wood, minimum 1 1/2 years, cut, split, stacked so i know the wood is good, fires right up. My stove is EPA certified, so thank you for the secondary air info. Secondary burn, thanks, i do see that lazy fire on top of the logs. I was not sure if doing it right but maybe my stove just wont reach the 600 + degree, wishful thinking maybe. Today i started the stove, kept the blower off, got the temp up to 525 degrees, added 3 nice splits, turned on the blower and the temp dropped to 450. I know when you add wood stove temp will drop for some time, just struggling to get it back to the 525 + stage. 30 minutes not wand still at 450 with the draft control set in 1/2 way. Am i shutting down too soon or is this just the way it goes with this stove? thanks for replying.

It sounds like you are doing well with the stove, but perhaps expecting too much? 400-500 on the face of an insert is not too shabby. If this were a freestanding stove and you could put the thermometer on the stove top near the flue exit, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be reading in the 600-650 range.

To extend the burn time once the stove is hot and there is a decent coal bed established, try using larger splits of wood and pack the firebox tightly by mating the wedge faces of the splits. Use smaller wood pieces to fill in the gaps. Once the fire is going well, try closing the air control down a bit past 50%, see if 75% shut works almost as well for temps, but better for longer fires. Also, do you know what type of wood you are burning? Different species have different heat values.

How big a place are you trying to heat with the stove and how well insulated is the house? Are there a lot of windows? If yes, do you have curtains you can close over them?

I think you are right, i think i am trying to get more from the stove than what it can really do. I should have gone bigger with 2 blowers instead of smaller stove with 1 blower. sq ft about 1700-1800 square feet, total open concept, large rooms, tons of floor to ceiling windows (16 in just 2 rooms alone) just in the lvingroom where the stove is and the family room adjacent with no walls and cathedral. Home is well insulated but the windows could be better. I believe are single pane. can keep those 2 rooms relatively warm but the rest of the home suffers. I have to put the furnace one. Will try what you recommended for longer burns and see how it goes.

 

[Bill]

Even with a larger insert, moving the heat from one part of the house to others can be a challenge. Remember a wood stove is more of a space heater for the room it's in. A larger stove will overheat the room it's in and it still may be a lot cooler in other parts of the house.