Should I pour some insulation or let a sleeping dog lie?

[ikessky]

I have to fix the crown on my chimney before burning this year, so I got thinking that I maybe should adjust my current setup. I wanted to post here first though and get everyone's thoughts on what I should really do.

I run an add on furnace that is located in my basement. The stove pipe runs into the existing chimney into a t that was installed on the end of my 316ti liner. I have some stove door gasket packed into the spot around the snout and the brick to seal that area up. Now, the liner is a 6" liner and the clay tiles were slightly less than 7"x7". Therefore, no wrap insulation could be used. I had a couple people look at the clay chimney tiles and mention that I didn't need a liner because they looked OK (none missing and no visible cracks). However, I figured for piece of mind, I would put the liner in. I know it's touching the clay tiles in some spots. I sealed the top plate with high temp RTV. I burned the furnace this way all last year, went through a little over 4 full cords, and saw a little bit of creosote based which I can really attribute to the fact that some of my wood was less than seasoned.

Now, my question is really this. Will I see any benefit by going with a pourable insulation? I had good draft last year and even better wood this year. Even with the insulation poured in, I'm pretty sure that I'll still be touching the clay tiles, but that really shouldn't matter as they were left in place and not really disturbed. If it's not going to benefit me at all, I think I'll just find a couple pieces of rockwool and stuff it around the liner at the very top of the chimney, install the new crown, and seal up the top plate once more.

 

[Wet1]

I don't think you're going to gain much by pouring in insulation. Your tiles are in good shape and you have an interior chimney, so I would probably not bother unless that little extra piece of mind is wanted.

I'm in a similar position with a similar size flue (although mine is probably longer) and I'm not sure I'll even be able to get much insulation down in there. With that said, perlite is fairly cheap so if you have the extra time, $, and desire, it certainly wouldn't hurt to pour it in.

I wouldn't worry about the little bit of contact that the SS liner is making with the tiles... the actual contact patch is minimal at best.

 

[Todd]

I've been pondering the same thing. My tiles are in good shape and just have rock wool jambed in at the top and my draft is outstanding. I was thinking of pouring thermix down, but like you my liner is a tight fit and touches the tiles in various places, so I don't know if it's worth the extra cost. There have been some threads lately about insulating liners and it seems like the right thing to do and even if your tiles are in good shape now, they may deteriorate over time.

 

[CrappieKeith]

I don't think you're going to gain much by pouring in insulation. Your tiles are in good shape and you have an interior chimney, so I would probably not bother unless that little extra piece of mind is wanted.

I'm in a similar position with a similar size flue (although mine is probably longer) and I'm not sure I'll even be able to get much insulation down in there. With that said, perlite is fairly cheap so if you have the extra time, $, and desire, it certainly wouldn't hurt to pour it in.

I wouldn't worry about the little bit of contact that the SS liner is making with the tiles... the actual contact patch is minimal at best.

plus 1

 

[ikessky]

I'll have to find and run the calculation again, but I think I had figured out at one point that I would only need less than a bag to do the liner. I found the stuff from Flex King (which is the liner I have) is only like $43 for a bag with free shipping. Might not be a bad way to go and isn't much money to be out if it doesn't really help. Then again, with a smoke dragon, every little bit does help right?!?!? ;-P

 

[CrappieKeith]

I'll have to find and run the calculation again, but I think I had figured out at one point that I would only need less than a bag to do the liner. I found the stuff from Flex King (which is the liner I have) is only like $43 for a bag with free shipping. Might not be a bad way to go and isn't much money to be out if it doesn't really help. Then again, with a smoke dragon, every little bit does help right?!?!? ;-P

Let's be honest....your Daka can only do so much. When it dies there are way better add on or stand alone furnaces out there.
I'd be looking at my barometric draft regulator. Getting it set if you have one is critical. You do not need any more than 400 degrees in your flue for a good temp.

 

[ikessky]

Only bought the Daka because it was cheap and we wanted to see how we liked wood heat in our house. If we didn't like it, then we wouldn't be out too much money. Now that I'm hooked, I'll be looking to upgrade in the next couple of years when this one is used up. It's been good so far though, and I see some people on the net have used them for 5+ years. If I stick with an add on furnace, I'll more than likely go with a Yukon (I figured you'd like that Keith!). We're not really sure what we're doing as far as our house goes though. If I build a new garage, I may go with a boiler so I can do infloor heat and then do pex into a heat exchanger in the plenum of our NG furnace. My other option is new construction in the country and then I will go with an outdoor boiler.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Now I see the method to your madness.
Sorry for the inept comment....I re read it and though crap....he might get offended.
It sounds like your putting some thought into what your gonna do....good luck with whatever you end up with.
I'd strongly advise to stay away from an OWB.
Iowa just sent ua a letter stating all of there requirements and the fact that they are tightening them up even more.
Wi. can't be far behind. Besides....what will you want to burn 1 or 3 cords of wood a month.
That's the difference between a good wood warm air furnace vs a OWB.
Of coarse if you have a smaller home those numbers would be less.

Here's something....with warm air...no power,still got heat.
Full control over air quiality and for the cost of the hot water furnace you can buy a warm air furnace,humidifier,A/C and a HEPA system.

Just some food for thought.

 

[ikessky]

Don't worry Keith. I didn't take any offense to your post.

Thanks for the info on the OWB regulations. With that info and the stuff I've read about the OWB manufacturers attempts and failures at EPA units, I think I will steer clear of them. In a new construction situation, I still think a gasification boiler would be my best bet. We would be running in-floor heat in both the house and the garage. In my current house, forced air is definitely the way to go. A new garage would be detached and most likely heated with a natural gas Reznor or Modine.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Don't worry Keith. I didn't take any offense to your post.

Thanks for the info on the OWB regulations. With that info and the stuff I've read about the OWB manufacturers attempts and failures at EPA units, I think I will steer clear of them. In a new construction situation, I still think a gasification boiler would be my best bet. We would be running in-floor heat in both the house and the garage. In my current house, forced air is definitely the way to go. A new garage would be detached and most likely heated with a natural gas Reznor or Modine.

I know I would take a hard look at Garn.Tarm's are good but a bit undersized for what you want to heat.
Years ago we had the oppertunity to buy Garn but we passed. I know our owner is kicking himself.
They have proven themselves and could have been had easily years ago.

 

[ikessky]

Thanks for the info Keith. I've also looked a little at the other lines of furnaces that Yukon has. Do you sell an all-in-one that would allow me to run natural gas and wood? I would seriously consider something like that in both my current house and a new construction. For a garage, I am really thinking that some kind of kind of instant heat (i.e. propane or NG overhead heater) is probably the way to go. Plus, the garage will be new construction anyway, so it should be well insulated and easy to keep heated at a low cost. Who knows, maybe I'll even get some kind of solar back up as well!

 

[Gooserider]

IMHO, insulation is one of those "will never hurt" options, though it can be questionable how much it will help with an inside chimney and a moderate climate. One option that might be worth considering is to try and figure out some way to get a barrier (Maybe a wad of rock wool pushed down with a pole?) at the level of the roof, or where the chimney enters the heated part of the house, and only insulate from there up - that way you get the benefit of whatever heat does leak out of the chimney in the living space, but keep it from loosing quite as much heat the rest of the way up...

Gooserider

 

[ikessky]

Great minds think alike Gooserider! ;-P I am planning on shoving fiberglass insulation into the existing clean out door in the basement to make sure I'm not getting any drafts from inside. I'm also going to get some kaowool and see how much I can fit around the liner from the top down. That should create somewhat of a dead air insulation space that will stay fairly warm. It will also be a good test this year as my wood is a lot drier than it was last year. It should be a good year