Should we keep this old Fisher?

[tfack]

My dad recently passed and we are converting the house to rent rooms, although I will still live here. The stove hasn't been used in a decade or two (nor has the chimney been swept) but there is some nostalgic value, as it was our only source of heat growing up and my mom built tiny formica-covered stools for each of us kids to sit on, while we ate breakfast in our Star Wars-inspired "jawas" we'd wore to sleep.

Anyway, we sort of need the space where it sits for a second refrigerator, so my question is, is there any value to these things other than nostalgia? How hard is it to find an wood burning stove these days? Can you even buy them, or do they have to be expensive clean-burning varieties?

Basically, would you keep it or sell it, and if the latter, what might be a fair price?

(In case you're wondering, I've seen some notes on other posts about broken bricks and such -- none here that I can see, the thing hasn't moved for 40 years so less likelihood for things breaking! Except for the obvious crack in the door of course, which was fixed 30 years ago -- accomplished the job but not too pretty, typical of all of my dad's handiwork)

Thanks!!

 

[ccmac]

I love these little stoves but I am not sure I would purchase one with a weld repair on the door. I kinda see these stoves (for me) as something I'd place in a shop or cabin and they add to the nostalgia. There are too many out there with no weld repairs too even consider one that has issues. So in that regard I would think it would not be too valuable, maybe a hundred bucks. Please do not be offended, just trying to be honest as I'd want someone being with me.

 

[bholler]

How hard is it to find an wood burning stove these days?

Not hard at all there are many many good stoves available now.

Can you even buy them, or do they have to be expensive clean-burning varieties?

Yes any new stoves sold need to be clean burn but they do not have to be expensive. Good ones can be had for right around $1000 and they will burn allot better than an old fisher.

is there any value to these things other than nostalgia?

Yes a good fisher stove can sell for $500 or so in the right market at the right time. Unfortunately with your door in the condition it is in there is not much value left there.

 

[bholler]

Also I see you are from Washington hopefully someone more familiar with Washington's laws will come along but I dont think you are allowed to sell a stove that does not meet Washington's emission requirements.

 

[coaly]

Definitely a first year 1974 stove.
Any markings on the bottom like writing in weld?? FSSO with initials of welder would be the original shop in Springfield. That would make it a keeper or drive up the price for a collector. The fabricator in Seattle was Bob's cousin Barb and her husband Frank Jorgenson. Not sure if they used any of the old style doors since a few cracked between air intakes and was the reason for the new thicker doors with Fir Trees for strength. The new doors with trees was months before they bought their license for the Seattle area.
Here is a picture of Bob's cousin Barb (Jorgenson at the time) from your nearest fabricator. They had issues with their shop foreman making an adaptation of the Fisher Stove early on;



If that door cracked before 1988 they could have taken it back for a new one or had it replaced with the new style.
It's a shame too since it's a Lefty! Yours is a Papa, but Mama uses the same door. I would be searching scrap yards and pull a door from one if possible. To the right person, you have something quite rare. Looks like it was brazed, which is much softer than weld, so it could probably be ground off on the front and repaired inside. You're still going to notice it on the outside, I would still make it as good as I could and keep it. But that is from a collector on the East Coast where we didn't have any that old here. There were not many patterns for doors back then, so there is a very good chance another left hand Springfield door you find will fit the hinge plates as installed on the stove. As time went on there were many foundries making doors, with slightly different patterns (molds) so each stove had hinge plates welded in position for the exact door being installed. So newer stoves need the hinge plates repositioned for another door.

*** It can only be used as connected (grandfathered) as it is, in your state. Also not sold legally in operable condition. Only EPA certified stoves are legal when installed as a new installation now. If the building is sold, it must also be removed. With all the rebates and programs to replace old stoves these are rare in the small market where they were made. Laws also state non-EPA stoves must be decommissioned by welding outlet shut so they can't be reused elsewhere. You will still find many being sold in all 3 states with these laws near you.***

The same fabricator in Seattle made some 2 piece top stoves before all went to the single piece bent tops shortly thereafter;

Notice this is another left hand vented stove with a right swing door that will not open against the wall like yours. Could have been out of lefthand doors at the time.

 

[byQ]

Also I see you are from Washington hopefully someone more familiar with Washington's laws will come along but I dont think you are allowed to sell a stove that does not meet Washington's emission requirements.

Ya, I don't think you are allowed to resell this pre-EPA stove in Washington. Maybe they give you credit towards a new stove (?) if you scrap it. Hopefully, other states will follow Washington's lead, someday, so better burning wood stoves are the norm.

 

[coaly]

Ya, I don't think you are allowed to resell this pre-EPA stove in Washington. Maybe they give you credit towards a new stove (?) if you scrap it. Hopefully, other states will follow Washington's lead, someday, so better burning wood stoves are the norm.

You're not "allowed" to, (details are in my last paragraph above) BUT have you checked out Craigslist in WA, OR or CA lately? It is full of older non-compliant stoves being sold daily. There are even stove reconditioners on eBay selling in those states for premium dollars. No enforcement if you ask me.

It's not the stove, it's the fuel and the burning practice that needs to be addressed. Burning a new EPA stove incorrectly gives you just as much smoke if not more than a Fisher or most other pre EPA stoves.

Of all the credits and rebates over the years they could have made baffle kits and secondary air tube kits for all the stoves in the change out programs saving people thousands. The smoke reduction over the last 25 years would probably negate the need for stricter regulations now.....

As they propose reducing particulate size, (first time since 1988) stove manufacturers will be using higher tech devices and soon the stricter regulations will be driving up the price of a new stove even more. Many who can't afford them will be keeping their old stoves longer or are going back to older affordable stoves. (hopefully adding baffles with better burning practices) They now claim the stricter regs will produce MORE particulate from older stoves since people will hold onto them longer or install them illegally due to cost. Had the EPA phased in stricter regulations over the last 28 years for OLDER stoves, the industry would have been forced to provide ways to make the bulk of what is out there much better, educating people in the process.
It appears "Burn Wise" is trying to educate users 25 years too late. That's just my opinion.

You do realize if Idaho follows their lead, you won't be able to build or use your own masonry heater right?

 

[bholler]

It's not the stove, it's the fuel and the burning practice that needs to be addressed. Burning a new EPA stove incorrectly gives you just as much smoke if not more than a Fisher or most other pre EPA stoves.

Yes but burning a fisher as well as you possibly can is still nowhere near what a new stove can do. Yes the old ones can be burnt well but there really is no comparison. And I am sorry but are you honestly saying that $1000 for a 30 nc is to expensive? To me you get allot more for your money there than you do spending 3 or 4 hundred on an old stove.

use your own masonry heater right?

Why would he not be able to use it? And as long as he adheres to an approved and tested plan I believe he would be in compliance anyway.

 

[byQ]

Wrong. There is only one appliance that will burn cleaner (in reality) than a traditional masonry heater and that is a masonry heater with an eco firebox (360 degree air). Just because a way to burn is superior doesn't mean people will burn that way. A masonry heater is the very top of the wood burning pyramid.

Dirty forms of burning wood (fireplaces, preEPA wood stoves, and outdoor boilers) have been the norm in North America, and this has been past down from generation to generation. I understand people can develop attachments to their stoves, there way of life, and become irrational. Unfortunately the pollution doesn't care about your sentiments.

There is so much misinformation out there about wood burning. When I first thought about getting into wood burning I thought about one of those outdoor type boilers - they always have the words 'eco' or 'green' in their titles. They must be clean right? These companies prey on the ignorance of consumers.

And you find them advertising in ways that give the impression that they are a good clean way to burn wood. But they are a bad way to burn wood - water surrounding a firebox - (?) Water that keeps the temperature down and creates a 'dirty' burn. This kind of wood burning is irresponsible, and these units should be removed from the marketplace. Burning in pre EPA wood stoves that haven't been altered is also irresponsible. Why?

Because you are burning twice as much wood for the same amount of heat, and sending much unburnt pollutants out into the atmosphere. If you are sentimental about these stoves keep them in the garage but don't use them for burning. Or like you said if you can attach things to them to get them up to EPA standards than burn in them.

 

[bholler]

If you are sentimental about these stoves keep them in the garage but don't use them for burning. Or like you said if you can attach things to them to get them up to EPA standards than burn in them.

I would not go that far. I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to keep their old stove. But what I do take issue with is those people who wont face the reality that the new stoves are just plain better. They burn cleaner and they give you more heat out of each piece of wood. And there are some very good stoves available at pretty low prices. I would like to hear how the price of a fisher when new compares to the price of a new stove now when taking inflation into account.

 

[coaly]

If legislation considers it a fireplace it can't be used in parts of the state. They are called Finnish or Russian Fireplaces aren't they?

EPA stoves CAN burn cleaner. I don't think they are better. Better burning yes, but not a better way to get usable heat for heating, cooking and water heating.

I replaced my Fisher after 25 years of burning for a larger stove top, larger oven (I used stove top type) and water heating capacity.
Here's what I get out of my single wood fire ;
Heating 1850 square feet within a couple degrees all winter.
8 hours or more unattended overnight.
25 gallon water heating capacity per hour. (to boiling)
Stove top cooking.
Oven cooking and baking.
Clothes drying.

I ask anyone with an EPA Certified stove (or masonry heater) to disconnect any other heat source. (I have none)
Remove their water heater.
Remove their kitchen range.
Remove their clothes dryer.
Burn 1 season. (I use mine all summer with a summer grate and no A/C)
Tell me how their stove is better than mine that I paid $1000 for 3 years ago.

 

[Old School]

I am by no means an expert...but I did my research and tried a new EPA stove to heat my first floor when I first moved to our current home. I did all the things needed and recommended and gave it three full heating seasons and could never keep my heat pump from running. I went back to an old pre EPA steel stove last year. I am getting much more heat and chimney liner was no more dirty....actually some cleaner.

Now I understand everyone is different and maybe it is just my burning style but I will never go down that road again.

I love being able to open the door add wood leave the air open a few minutes before shutting it down then move on. I don't have to worry about if the cat is hot enough or if I got light off or if the fire will smolder because I had I leave the house before it was all just so so. Also if my wood is not hardly dry enough, amazingly, it still burns.....

Just my two cents...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

I love being able to open the door add wood leave the air open a few minutes before shutting it down then move on. I don't have to worry about if the cat is hot enough or if I got light off or if the fire will smolder because I had I leave the house before it was all just so so. Also if my wood is not hardly dry enough, amazingly, it still burns.....

Well in many new stoves you dont have to worry about a cat either. In fact you really don't burn much differently you load your wood upen it up till you get up to temp then shut it back just like you should be doing with your old stove. And you also should be burning dry wood in that old stove just like a new one. Wet wood burns like crap in old or new stoves water simply does not burn.

 

[bholler]

I ask anyone with an EPA Certified stove (or masonry heater) to disconnect any other heat source. (I have none)
Remove their water heater.
Remove their kitchen range.
Remove their clothes dryer.
Burn 1 season. (I use mine all summer with a summer grate and no A/C)
Tell me how their stove is better than mine that I paid $1000 for 3 years ago.

Well we have many customers with no heat other than their wood stove and many of them are heating with epa tested stoves. Now the other things you are talking about are unique to cook stoves. I personally don't want a cook stove I like my gas range and my clothes drier. Yes we could easily hang our clothes and dry them my parents did for years with their stove but I don't want to do that. I also don't want to burn wood all summer either.

What I am looking for out of my wood stove is the ability to heat my house with as little wood as possible and for that you want a modern stove.

 

[Don H]

It would be a shame to scrap an old stove like this. I'd like to hear more about its history. Does it have any markings in weld underneath?

 

[bholler]

It would be a shame to scrap an old stove like this. I'd like to hear more about its history. Does it have any markings in weld underneath?

I would scrap it in a heartbeat the damage to the door in my mind destroys any value it had.

 

[tfack]

Sad to hear so late that Fisher would've replaced the door for us. It broke in '82 or '83 and my 14 year old brother repaired it in his high school metal shop class.

No special markings underneath, though consensus here is that it is certainly an early model. Judging the year by my dad's hair styles, 1974 seems about right.

It may stay put for awhile yet, since moving a 500lb bulky object is no simple task, but given the legal (and environmental) issues the plan is probably to scrap it. We could post it on Craigslist with a strong disclaimer, but then who would buy something for $100 if they can't use it and can only scrap it for 2 cents a pound?

Sigh. Well, thanks everyone for participating in the debate, I've been curious about this issue for quite some time!

On a side/related note, what about backyard (or beach) fire pits? A lot of people seem to have those in the city, and they would seemingly burn much less efficiently than even the worst old stove...

 

[Don H]

I would scrap it in a heartbeat the damage to the door in my mind destroys any value it had.

Those welds give it character and they don't effect it's function. If it wasn't across the country I'd take it for $100.

 

[bholler]

Those welds give it character and they don't effect it's function. If it wasn't across the country I'd take it for $100.

No they don't it will still function like any other big steel box stove like it. Yes they can crank out some serious heat but they can also chew through allot of wood. I think $100 is about the right price for it. But he cannot sell it legally in his state.

 

[Lake Girl]

One option would be to use it as a backyard fire "pit"... Cap the flue when fire's out so the rain doesn't get in.

 

[Don H]

No they don't it will still function like any other big steel box stove like it. Yes they can crank out some serious heat but they can also chew through allot of wood. I think $100 is about the right price for it. But he cannot sell it legally in his state.

A simple baffle can make it more efficient.

I've got an old Wisdom Oak parlor stove in my basement family room. It's not hooked up. it's just a show piece. It belonged to my grandparents and was the sole source of heat for their small farm house during the Depression. Point is, with the OP's stove, it apparently has some family history behind it. They may want to keep it, even if its just as a back-up heat source or even just a conversation piece.

 

[bholler]

A simple baffle can make it more efficient.

I've got an old Wisdom Oak parlor stove in my basement family room. It's not hooked up. it's just a show piece. It belonged to my grandparents and was the sole source of heat for their small farm house during the Depression. Point is, with the OP's stove, it apparently has some family history behind it. They may want to keep it, even if its just as a back-up heat source or even just a conversation piece.

Yes a baffle will make it a little more efficent but it will still never be anywhere near as efficent as a new stove.

And yes like I said I have absolutely no issue if someone likes their old stove and wants to keep it. Especially if it has family history. But I said what I would do with it not what he should do with it.

 

[byQ]

Besides the extra pollution it will cost you more money to buy the 'cheaper' old stove - huh? Let's say you don't live on the west coast (OR, WA, CA) but live somewhere where old stoves can be burned.

You look on craigslist and find a 1980 fisher wood stove in great condition and it only costs $300. You reflect, "...I remember that we had one of these in our house growing up and it heated well for our family." Your first impulse is to buy it. But you have a nerdy brother-in-law who tells you you would be foolish to buy that pristine fisher. What? Why?

He tells you, "Wait until non wood burning season and go try and find a nc-30 for sale at one of the big box stores. You can get one of these for $800." You say, "Ya but I can get this fisher for only $300. I just saved myself $500."
Your brother-in-law says, "In one year's time you will spend more money if you buy that old stove."

How come? The nc-30 is 70% efficient, and the old fisher is 40% efficient. 7 cords of dry firewood burned in the old stove = 4 cords of dry firewood in the new stove. If you use wood as a primary source of heat you will probably burn at least this much.

So when you buy that old wood stove it comes with the 3 extra cords of firewood you will need to process or buy. It's real cost is $300 + three times the cost of an average cord of wood (say $250). Your out the door cost for that old wood stove = $300 + $750 (the extra wood you'll be burning) = $1050.

So, you lost $250 by buying that old stove after one year of full time use. And with that old stove you've created several times more pollution than you would have if you had bought the nc-30. Wait, I'm paying more for the old stove and I am creating more pollution?

You pace back and forth in your living room. You look at a picture and say to yourself, "Pappy, times have changed. We did the best we could back in the days and used what we had. But my brother-in-law is right. Forgive me, but I'm waiting 'til spring to buy a new nc-30."