Sloppy Install and I am concerned about using the stove.

[RichardA]

Hello,

I have been on this site a number of times and always left with great information. Now I am back because I am not happy with my installed stove.

I just had a Quadrafire Explorer 2 installed in an existing masonry fire place where the chimney runs up an interior wall. Quadrafire says that the stoves efficacy rating is based on the best installation method possible for my scenario which they say is an 6” insulated liner. They also said that due to my location in NC where we see teens at night and 50 degrees by noon, that we need it insulated to control moisture. The installer says no liner is needed, period. Will not say anything more then, we have been doing it like this for years. (I hate that saying)

The other issue is the liner. Duraflex says that the liner is a ‘No Pierce” liner, but the installer used screws to connect it instead of clamps. I have the feeling he used the same method when he formed a union in the chimney. Also, they tried to squeeze a 6 inch liner through a 4 inch hole. I understand that ovalizing is okay, but crushing it to fit is nonsense. In picture you can see a clear dent in the liner. They also went right to the stove with the pipe, instead of a T connector, which I have seen used more often than not.

Furthermore, the stove came with a kit to seal the flu. The installer did not use it, just stuffed fire blanket material in there. I was told this too would fall out.

I am greatly concerned that the issue with the Duraflex liner are a potential problem and/or fire issue, and if the way they attached the pip is okay.

I am in no way looking for a cheap way out.

Rich

 

[begreen]

Welcome Rich. Yes, a clamp connector should be used for Duraflex. Why was there a union in the chimney? The picture didn't come through. Please post shots of all areas of concern. Have you contacted the owner of the company with your concerns?

 

[RichardA]

Welcome Rich. Yes, a clamp connector should be used for Duraflex. Why was there a union in the chimney? The picture didn't come through. Please post shots of all areas of concern. Have you contacted the owner of the company with your concerns?

Hello,
I talked with Quadrafire, Duraflex and the owner of the company, and the responce I got from the owner was, I will come pick up the stove and give me mine money back..Needless to say, I was livid!

I should have added about the cap. Its just a flat piece of steel and you can see its not centered. It almost seems like its pinned in the corner.

 

[edyit]

you might be better off getting your money back and trying to find a new dealer / installer http://www.csia.org/search will likely get you someone that isnt a hack

 

[RichardA]

you might be better off getting your money back and trying to find a new dealer / installer http://www.csia.org/search will likely get you someone that isnt a hack

The entire job cost me $5200, but I have only paid him a 50% deposit. We waited 6 weeks for the stove, and they are NOT getting it back! The company has been doing this for 30 years and has very few good reviews, but no bad ones either. It all started to go south after they insisted that the owner needed to be on site for the install, and then failed to show up. Could not be reached via phone either after I started to notice what was going on. Turns out his installers were also subs which pissed me off even more.

 

[PackAttack1990]

RichardA PM sent.

 

[matt1@]

I hate to see you spend more money, but if I was in your situation, I would hire a csia certified chimney tech to come and thoroughly inspect the install and write a report about any safety issues which may or may not exist. Then you have something in writing to discuss with the owner of the company who did the install. If it is safe then at least you have piece of mind before using your new stove. Congrats on the Explorer 2 by the way!

 

[begreen]

If you are unsatisfied with the work then removal and reimbursement is an option. It does look like a bit of a rush job. No RTV should be on the flue exit collar. It is not rated for the high temps seen at this location and will stink badly when it gets hot. It needs to be removed. The installation looks down and dirty, like it was done by pellet stove installers.

Was this a low bid? Was a blockoff-plate and cleanout tee requested for the original quote?

 

[bholler]

Well I can see a few issues right off the bat. The liner should be insulated for safety and performance. There should be a tee so when stuff falls down the flue it has somewhere to go and does not block the flue. They should use band clamps instead of fasteners but at least use rivets with backing washers if need be. There should be no silicon on the liner anywhere but to seal the top. They should not have smashed the liner they should have cut the damper out. And there should be an insulated blockoff plate (but that is not a safety issue and really is not required)

 

[bholler]

I personally would have them uninstall it and refund the money for everything but the stove and delivery of it. I would then find a competent installer who will do a safe install the way you want.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, and in a new install there shouldn't be a splice in the liner.

 

[bholler]

Agreed, and in a new install there shouldn't be a splice in the liner.

If donr correctly there is no problem we will occasionally piece one together out of 2 or 3 left over pieces but the price will reflect that. But I seriously doubt they did it right by the look of their other work.

 

[begreen]

Rich, was the chimney completely cleaned before installation?

 

[webby3650]

If donr correctly there is no problem we will occasionally piece one together out of 2 or 3 left over pieces but the price will reflect that. But I seriously doubt they did it right by the look of their other work.

Same here. It's rare, but it happens and it's approved by the manufacturer if you use the provided coupler.
We get our liners delivered straight rather than coiled up in a box, up to 30'. If it's over 30', I'll use a coupler.

 

[webby3650]

Is your chimney particularly tall? Just wonder why they spliced it.
Your chimney crown is also in need of attention, don't mean to beat ya while your down...

 

[bholler]

We get our liners delivered straight rather than coiled up in a box, up to 30'. If it's over 30', I'll use a coupler.

We generally order 200' coils of our most common liners. Other than that we order whatever length coil we need. But we at times end up with 8 or 10 feet left over. When we get someone who doesn't have the money for a liner we use that to help with the cost.

 

[bholler]

I looked at the pics again and they did cut the damper frame but there apparently still was not enough room all it would have taken was pulling one brick to get clearance.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for picking up on the crown, meant to mention that. It's unclear whether the splice was done with a coupler or not.

 

[bholler]

It's unclear whether the splice was done with a coupler or not.

I doubt they did it without a coupler but I also am skeptical they used the right one by the way they did the other connections.

 

[Sprinter]

I personally would have them uninstall it and refund the money for everything but the stove and delivery of it. I would then find a competent installer who will do a safe install the way you want.

If that doesn't work, another approach may be to get a good certified installer that can be accepted in court as an expert in case it comes to that.
Have them specify all the problems that are not compliant with industry standards and local codes with an honest estimate to make it right. Then take that to the dealer and ask for a refund based on the installers' estimate. If you can't get an agreement, take to small claims. Just have good documentation and good pics that a judge can understand. Sounds like a pain, but my guess is that the dealer or installer will make good once they see good documented evidence. Nobody wants to go to court.

I'm not in the industry, but as a consumer, that's what I'd be inclined to do if the dealer won't comply with what you want them to do.

 

[bholler]

If that doesn't work, another approach may be to get a good certified installer that can be accepted in court as an expert in case it comes to that.
Have them specify all the problems that are not compliant with industry standards and local codes with an honest estimate to make it right. Then take that to the dealer and ask for a refund based on the installers' estimate. If you can't get an agreement, take to small claims. Just have good documentation and good pics that a judge can understand. Sounds like a pain, but my guess is that the dealer or installer will make good once they see good documented evidence. Nobody wants to go to court.

So far he has only paid 50% so no need to take him to court. Just have someone install it right and tell the shop their liner is pulled they can come get it if they want it.

 

[Sprinter]

So far he has only paid 50% so no need to take him to court. Just have someone install it right and tell the shop their liner is pulled they can come get it if they want it.

Oh, right, I missed that point. Still good to get some good documentation in case the dealer sues for the rest, it would seem. They could claim that all was good and the OP would need to prove otherwise. Do you think that's likely?

 

[bholler]

Do you think that's likely?

No but I would document it regardless. Honestly the pics he has and the testimony of the pro who fixes it would be enough.

 

[Woody Stover]

your chimney crown is also in need of attention

You might also need to replace that top clay liner tile when you do the crown. When crawdads have taken up residence inside the tile, it's not a good sign.

 

[RichardA]

Oh, Crap..I stopped getting alerts to your comments, so I am sorry for not responding. After being told that the install was normal, we fired the stove up. After about two hours of a small load, we got a lot of smoke in the room, as well as smoke in the garage where the chimney is located. I am at a loss here and scared that this is so much worse than I thought.UGH!