small inserts

[udris]

I am new to the community but have been reading with great interest for many months.

I too am in the market for a small insert for a small Victorian fireplace in Providence. (see photo 1)

(12" deep, 35 1/4" wide at the front, 28 1/2" wide at the back, 29 3/4" high at the front, 35 1/2" high from hearth tile to mantle trim)

The only wood burning inserts I can find that work with this depth are the Dutchwest 2500X01 and the Century EPA CJW2500X02, both from Vermont Castings. I guess we'll call that question 1.

2. The chimneys are in poor shape, original to the 1889 house, mortar in the attic is like butter after years of water leaks. I assume i'll need an insulated rigid liner. Would that be sufficient or will chimney repairs also have to be done? I could easily re-point the brick in the attic and above the roofline as necessary.

3. Photo 2 shows the interior top of the fireplace, I guess it's called the damper, with a handle that slides sideways to open the rectangular holes.
The metal measures 8" from front to back so I think it could accommodate a 6" chimney, but it seems like this thing is cast iron/heavy/solid, like we're going to need an oxy-acetylene torch to cut a hole in it. Any one seen this predicament before?

Your input is greatly appreciated, and any RI folks out there who have local connections/suggestions/dealers would be helpful.

 

[n6crv]

Hello Udris, just wanted to say great looking fireplace!

 

[Dunadan]

I have a Lopi Revere, and while I would consider the insert/stove itself a "small stove" (in terms of how much heat it puts out and the space it will heat) it does have a somewhat smaller footprint. This is mainly due to the fact that the stove has a large cooktop, and when installed, it only inserts part-way into the fireplace. The front 8" or so sticks out onto the hearth.

 

[PAJerry]

PE Vista may not be 'beautiful' but it sure does put out the heat. It did a very nice job for us last winter and will probably be even better this one with 3" of cerawool insulation on 3 sides of the unit. Waiting anxiously for cold weather!

 

[udris]

Thanks for the suggestions but having looked up both of these inserts, neither would seem to work.
Both the PE Vista and the Lopi Revere require a minimum fireplace depth greater than 12".

 

[begreen]

The Country Striker C160 insert is 12.5" deep. It may take a little shim for the surround edges, but might work.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

yep striker may be the best bet , ours wont fit , at 14" its too deep.

 

[kwburn]

ok, i got more info and pictures of my brothers fireplace. more complicated than i thought so i need help.

the inside of his fireplace is all metal? no idea what that means in all this. the house is old (75 years?)
also, you can see by the pictures that the clearances to the outside trim are quite close.
is there any hope?
let me know if any other questions need to be answered.

firebox dimensions are: 33"w x 27"h x 22"deep

 

[stoveguy2esw]

looks like a "pre-maufactured fireplace , if so our insert is not rated for it. ours is masonary only. it would fit , but im not sure, if its a preemie if its not legal. however , if the metal box is installed into an existing masonary , it may be installed if the metal box is removed and the brick fireplace is left.

i got a bad feeling though that its not going to be a good thing here bro. you may need to check on ZC rated inserts theey may be legit in that fireplace. hate losing a sale , but hate being wrong at sombodys expense even worse. lets see if anyone chimes in that may have an answer for us.

HEY GUYS.... help!

 

[Gooserider]

KWB - Do you know if the fireplace was originally built like that? Can you tell if there is masonry around the outside of the unit? If so, how much and what are the clearances between the masonry and any combustibles? What is the chimney like - is it also metal, or is it masonry? Are there vents that would allow convection air flow around the firebox (I don't see any in the picture, but they might be on a side wall or out of view) At 75 years old, it seems like a bit old to be a ZC unit, but I'm not sure just when those were first invented. More likely is that it might be a "Heatilator" style box that was built in that time frame in an effort to get more useful heat out of a fireplace - essentially these were steel shells that were built into a masonry fireplace, usually with convection air channels around the box so that the fire would heat the shell and drive convection airflow to pull more heat out. My folks had one in the summer cottage we owned while I was growing up. IF that is what you have, then you may be able to treat it as a masonry firebox for most inserts, but it sounds like what you really need at this point is a good inspection by a really experienced chimney sweep to determine exactly what you have, and what your options are for insert selection. In any case, you might need to relocate / redo the trim, which would be a PITA, but not the major challenge it would be with Udris' fireplace. Your fireplace is nice, but it's not the same level of architectural splendor that Udris has, I wouldn't feel it was a big deal to modify it as needed.

Udris - That is a NICE looking fireplace, it will be a real challenge to get an insert into that space while keeping it looking as pretty as it does now. Sounds like the chimney might also be a problem - does it have chimney tiles lining the interior, or is it just bricks? What sort of shape is the interior of the chimney in? Sounds like an Elk question, but my guess is that you will definitely need an insulated liner, not sure if it would have to be rigid or not, you might be able to get away with flex. I would also expect that you would need to repoint the masonry and make whatever other repairs were needed to get the chimney back to being structurally sound. (Note, you might want to check with a restoration specialist on what sort of stuff to use in repairing the chimney, I don't know the details, but I know that masonry materials and technology has changed over time, and using modern materials on old masonry can cause problems.) You will also want to watch your clearances to combustibles requirements really closely, it would be tragic to have to modify that trim...

I'm not sure on the models, but it sounds like you've already done a great deal of looking (a good thing!)

As to the damper, I haven't seen one like that before, but you are right that it will need some serious surgery to get a liner past it. You might need a torch, or possibly an angle grinder or Sawzall might be able to get it Looks like a pain regardless. OTOH, it should be easy to get a blockoff plate installed on it.

Do you have any info on the chimney itself? What size is it inside? Is it tile lined or brick? How many flues are in the chimney structure, and what are they used for? Is this the only thing using this flue? Is it straight up, or does it have bends - if so how many and how much?

Also you might be better off to start your own thread on this project, I find it's a lot easier if each project has it's own thread as it avoids confusion over who's questions are getting answered.

Gooserider

 

[karl]

Why would the metal fireplace have to come out? I'm puting a Summit insert in my fireplace. My house is 43 years old and has concrete block for the fireplace and chimney. The chimney is lined with tile and the fireplace has a metal shell in it. I figured that I could just install a block off plate, a liner, and then slide the insert in. Is this not the case? The bottom of my fireplace is masonery, but the sides and top are not. The damper is part of this whole metal structure.

 

[elkimmeg]

Karl is you summit listed for ZC installations?
I'm starting a new post to get the ball rolling on this issue it is occuring on the forum quite frequently

 

[budman]

Karl is you summit listed for ZC installations?
I'm starting a new post to get the ball rolling on this issue it is occuring on the forum quite frequently

Elk i have the same set up as karl has and have been burning for two years now.It is a heatalator
built into a masonary fire place is there a problem with this.Fire brick floor 12x12 clay flue 17ft
run and no wood framing any where near the fire box.This is an all masonary fire place.

Thanks Kurt

 

[elkimmeg]

Budman If youinspector approved it and you have clearance issues solved then Why worry read threw my new post and if there is somethere that you are concerned apout the post it and discuss it I will if I have time go back and clean up the puncutaion and spellings so weed threw it

 

[Hogwildz]

For the firebox that is only 12" deep, check out this Regency Hearth Heater.

http://www.regency-fire.com/Wood/Inserts/H2100/

 

[budman]

Budman If youinspector approved it and you have clearance issues solved then Why worry read threw my new post and if there is somethere that you are concerned apout the post it and discuss it I will if I have time go back and clean up the puncutaion and spellings so weed threw it

Karl you heard the man now get that
stove out of the hallway and installed. :coolmad:

 

[GeeWizMan]

I am not sure I can add anything to this discussion other than to say that my situation is very similar to Budman's. We have a Lopi (Revere) insert installed into a heatilator type fireplace. Ours is different in that the metal box is on all sides including the floor. The township building inspector gave the "okay" to install as long as I was using a stainless steel liner all the way up. The installation went flawlessly and we used it last winter for the first time.

We also have a freestanding wood stove that we have been using for 10 years. The 2 different stoves operate very differently, like night and day. However, both put out enough heat that we effectively heat our 3000 sq. ft. home without requiring the furnace to come on.

Regarding Hogwildz suggestion of the Regency insert, we checked them out and it looked like a pretty good insert however, the dealer in our area wanted an arm and leg for it.

George