Smaller stove completely outside of fireplace?

[lumbering on]

So just checking my measurements here.

If I get the Jotul Castine, and use the rear vent option, the entire stove can actually sit free and clear outside the fireplace, radiating all it's heat up into the room.

If I get the Oslo, I have to bury some of the stove inside the fireplace.

What are the real world differences in having a slightly smaller stove better positioned in the room.

(i'm zone heating more than whole house heating).

 

[begreen]

Assuming a low block off plate is in place I'd guess that the stove size would make a bigger difference. And a blower can be ordered for the Oslo to improve heat output into the room.

 

[Nick Mystic]

Last February I did a similar installation with a Jotul F600 woodstove. The new stove sits in front of my fireplace opening with a small portion of the rear protrusion of the stove inserted into the fireplace. As begreen mentioned, I installed a block off plate and also laid some insulation on top of it for good measure. The stove throws great heat out into the room and I did not see any need for a blower unit. I did a little experimenting with a couple different small fans placed inside the fireplace opening and did not notice any appreciable heat beyond what the stove was radiating on its own. If you go with the Oslo I feel certain you won't loose any heat due to a tiny portion of the rear of the stove sticking inside your fireplace.

 

[shoot-straight]

its an "alcove" installation. my avatar has my pheonix done like that.

 

[firefighterjake]

When checking the temps of my Oslo (completely free standing) the hottest temps are always from the front and top . . . sides are pretty warm as well . . . back is nowhere near as hot (but I also have a rear heat shield on it.)

 

[lumbering on]

Their is only going to be like an inch between the top of the stove and the fireplace, not alot of room for airflow. So I don't think I could call it an alcove.

The brochure doesn't give me measurements without the ash lip. I'm stopping by the dealer tomorrow to take a few measurements to get a better sense.

But if say 6 inches of the actual firebox itself (not the rear vent piece) were under the fireplace what's the real world difference in that? I still feel like an unobstructed ability for the heat to rise up into the living room could be more efficient. But I'm not one for physics.

 

[lumbering on]

Last February I did a similar installation with a Jotul F600 woodstove. The new stove sits in front of my fireplace opening with a small portion of the rear protrusion of the stove inserted into the fireplace. As begreen mentioned, I installed a block off plate and also laid some insulation on top of it for good measure. The stove throws great heat out into the room and I did not see any need for a blower unit. I did a little experimenting with a couple different small fans placed inside the fireplace opening and did not notice any appreciable heat beyond what the stove was radiating on its own. If you go with the Oslo I feel certain you won't loose any heat due to a tiny portion of the rear of the stove sticking inside your fireplace.

Thanks for the pics. I see your stove comes right up to the edge of the brick. But you also have a raised hearth. I don't, mine is almost flush with the hardwood floor.

I also see you are using a hearth rug to get your 16" of ember protection. Is that tile underneath the hearth rug? Could a hearthrug get me a few extra inches of SAFE protection for my hardwood if I wanted to sneak the stove out a few more inches?

Does the Jotul need heat protection in the front of the stove more than the 8" recommended for the sides? Is the 16" recommendation just for ember protection or is there a heat protection component to that 16" requirement?

I other words...help!

 

[Nick Mystic]

The Jotul F600 calls for 18" of right side clearance where the loading door is located and 18" in the front where you can also open the doors for loading. On my set up I have about six feet of hearth to the right where I do all my loading and just the hearth rug out front. However, I only open the front doors when the stove is cold to clean the glass, never to load wood with a fire going. As you noted, I have a hearth rug in front of the stove for ember protection. The floor beneath the rug is a laminate tile. I've considered removing a few tiles and replacing them with ceramic tile, but since the front doors are never opened while burning it's more of a code consideration than an actual safety issue. If I ever sell the house I'll be sure to have everything up to code. As for your situation, if you are going to be loading your stove through your front doors then you will definitely need to follow the manufacturers requirements for combustible clearances out front.

 

[lumbering on]

The Jotul F600 calls for 18" of right side clearance where the loading door is located and 18" in the front where you can also open the doors for loading. On my set up I have about six feet of hearth to the right where I do all my loading and just the hearth rug out front. However, I only open the front doors when the stove is cold to clean the glass, never to load wood with a fire going. As you noted, I have a hearth rug in front of the stove for ember protection. The floor beneath the rug is a laminate tile. I've considered removing a few tiles and replacing them with ceramic tile, but since the front doors are never opened while burning it's more of a code consideration than an actual safety issue. If I ever sell the house I'll be sure to have everything up to code. As for your situation, if you are going to be loading your stove through your front doors then you will definitely need to follow the manufacturers requirements for combustible clearances out front.

Ok, thanks. better to stay safe.

 

[timfromohio]

Neat thread. I currently have a PE insert in the fireplace opening with a raised hearth and have often thought of swapping it for a smaller free-standing stove. Is it possible to cut out some additional brick on top and sides if needed?

 

[Nick Mystic]

I'm not a mason, so I can't give you professional advice on removing the bricks you mention. However, I will say that on my fireplace, and others I have seen, there is a steel lentil that spans the top of the firebox opening. I'm pretty certain this is a fundamental structural element, so if you cut through it and remove bricks from above it you are likely damaging the integrity of the fireplace and chimney. I'm not as sure about bricks along the sides of the opening, but once you start loosening and removing bricks you won't always know what lies behind them. You could end up with a big mess on your hands.

 

[timfromohio]

Nick - thanks for your reponse. I've not closely examined the top portion of the firebox opening since 2005 when I got the insert! Will have to remove the surround and take a look.

 

[begreen]

The lintel is structural. You should consult with a professional mason before removing and of the brickwork.

 

[timfromohio]

Will do.

Do you guys know if it's possible to make a circular cutout after the fact? I've seen some installs where there is a short vertical section of pipe, 90 degree elbow, and then into a thimball in the brick. Can this be done after the fact?

Also, this has me thinking about rear vent vs. top vent. I've seen some stoves in which either configuration is possible. Do you guys think they'd perform equally?

 

[begreen]

Tim, you should start a new thread for your install. What you suggest is possible. In some cases you can tap into the flue above the damper plate. Post a picture of the existing setup for starters.

 

[timfromohio]

I'll do that begreen.

I don't know why I now have a fixation with swapping out the insert. It has performed well for the past 8 years. Just wood stove obsession I guess!