Our weather is warming up so I'm letting the fire go out in the morning and starting back up in the evening. Today it was windy so I started a small fire around 10 AM, and was burning some odd sized pieces that don't fit in a full load. Well I let it go too long before reloading and put 3 pieces of wood on top of what was left of the coals, but it never took off. A couple hours later I have smoke billowing out of the bypass handle slot and the shroud around the temp control. The past couple days it has taken a fresh load longer to "catch" and longer to get up to temperature. Do you think my stovepipe is plugged? Have a guy coming to clean it tomorrow.
Smoke coming out the side of Princess insert.
- Thread starter northroadak
- Start date
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stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Could be, or a draft reversal when not enough heat was produced.
but I don't understand how you got there; reload, wide open (and presumably out of the active range so the bypass open) until it's going well, then dial down.
apparently you walked away with an inactive cat and a smoldering heap? That is not advisable.
but I don't understand how you got there; reload, wide open (and presumably out of the active range so the bypass open) until it's going well, then dial down.
apparently you walked away with an inactive cat and a smoldering heap? That is not advisable.
Bypass was open waiting for it to catch, but apparently there wasn’t enough coals left to light it off. I was just burning one or 2 oddball sized pieces at a time to get rid of them during the heat of the day, got busy and forgot to reload until it was about out. Have been loading it up at night. Been running this for 12 years now and never had anything like that happen. Normally do a hot reload and it’s taking off before I get it stuffed full. It was really windy today and I’m guessing that along with the cold stack didn’t help.
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stoveliker
Minister of Fire
So you had the bypass open for a couple of hours and during that time you walked away. That is not advisable.
Because either it takes off and you damage the stove (bypass open), or you're smoldering and gunking up the chimney.
Assuming you did check in on the stove periodically, you should have taken action earlier as it didn't burn well.
Because either it takes off and you damage the stove (bypass open), or you're smoldering and gunking up the chimney.
Assuming you did check in on the stove periodically, you should have taken action earlier as it didn't burn well.
Related question here, though I haven't had any smoke indoors or other visible problems. I'm wondering under what circumstances, if any, it's okay that wood smolders (burning and charring without flames).
To make my situation clearer, here's my workflow with a new BK princess 29 insert:
1. Fire it up from a cold start or remnant coals, when the cat is inactive.
2. Leave the door cracked and supervise it until the fire is well lit, then close the door and walk away but not far, leaving bypass open.
3. Check in every 15min or so, and when the cat thermometer indicates it is active, close the bypass. At worst, the bypass is open for apx 15min while the cat is in its active temperature range - is that wiggle room reasonable?
4a. After another 15min or so with the bypass closed and thermostat fully open, I turn the thermostat down, following the guidance of the installer and manual. I turn it down until the flames become "ghostly" but still having flames. I also turn the blower fan on, stronger or softer depending on home heating needs. At this point, I walk away and might leave the house or go to bed.
4b. As fuel runs low, I'll do "hot reloads" while cat is still in active temp range. I open the thermostat fully, open the bypass, wait a minute or so, then slowly open the door and put a few more pieces of wood in. I shut the door and bypass once the wood is well situated and lit. I leave the thermostat on high for a while to get the wood burning well, then lower it as described in step 4.
4c. At night, I usually do a hot reload before bed, and stay up long enough to have the wood well lit and turn the thermostat down. Each morning after I've done that, I wake up to find a bed of ashes and some hot coals, usually hot enough coals to get a new fire started from scratch without needing a match.
Toward the end of a burn (after step 4a or 4c), I have seen hot wood with minimal or no flames until I turn up the thermostat or add more wood. I'm sure this happens over night, with the tail end of remaining fuel being combusted through flameless smoldering. Is smoldering okay as long as the cat is in its active range? What about overnight when the cat inevitably cools off, is the idea that the cat wouldn't be cool until remaining fuel has smoldered away most of its energy and exhaust already? Should I change what I'm doing?
To make my situation clearer, here's my workflow with a new BK princess 29 insert:
1. Fire it up from a cold start or remnant coals, when the cat is inactive.
2. Leave the door cracked and supervise it until the fire is well lit, then close the door and walk away but not far, leaving bypass open.
3. Check in every 15min or so, and when the cat thermometer indicates it is active, close the bypass. At worst, the bypass is open for apx 15min while the cat is in its active temperature range - is that wiggle room reasonable?
4a. After another 15min or so with the bypass closed and thermostat fully open, I turn the thermostat down, following the guidance of the installer and manual. I turn it down until the flames become "ghostly" but still having flames. I also turn the blower fan on, stronger or softer depending on home heating needs. At this point, I walk away and might leave the house or go to bed.
4b. As fuel runs low, I'll do "hot reloads" while cat is still in active temp range. I open the thermostat fully, open the bypass, wait a minute or so, then slowly open the door and put a few more pieces of wood in. I shut the door and bypass once the wood is well situated and lit. I leave the thermostat on high for a while to get the wood burning well, then lower it as described in step 4.
4c. At night, I usually do a hot reload before bed, and stay up long enough to have the wood well lit and turn the thermostat down. Each morning after I've done that, I wake up to find a bed of ashes and some hot coals, usually hot enough coals to get a new fire started from scratch without needing a match.
Toward the end of a burn (after step 4a or 4c), I have seen hot wood with minimal or no flames until I turn up the thermostat or add more wood. I'm sure this happens over night, with the tail end of remaining fuel being combusted through flameless smoldering. Is smoldering okay as long as the cat is in its active range? What about overnight when the cat inevitably cools off, is the idea that the cat wouldn't be cool until remaining fuel has smoldered away most of its energy and exhaust already? Should I change what I'm doing?
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
3. Yes, it's fine to have the bypass open when the cat is not yet active. The stove will not be as hot yet.
Your steps 4 are all fine. One can run the stove in "black box mode" all the time, if that meets your heating needs. Flame is not needed for a BK.
Moreover, at the end of a burn, even when the cat already goes out of the active zone, there is no creosote produced.
So, you are doing everything fine. You can turn it down even more and run a full load without flame (after the initial wide open run to get everything good and burning).
The one thing I would change (but you don't *have* to) is to not put "a few splits on the fire", but to burn until the load is "done" (enough coals left for reload), and then just stuff the firebox full again.
Your steps 4 are all fine. One can run the stove in "black box mode" all the time, if that meets your heating needs. Flame is not needed for a BK.
Moreover, at the end of a burn, even when the cat already goes out of the active zone, there is no creosote produced.
So, you are doing everything fine. You can turn it down even more and run a full load without flame (after the initial wide open run to get everything good and burning).
The one thing I would change (but you don't *have* to) is to not put "a few splits on the fire", but to burn until the load is "done" (enough coals left for reload), and then just stuff the firebox full again.
Awesome, thanks for that feedback. And I hear you on the reload advise (I take it you're saying to reload more and less frequently, rather than just a few splits more often). I only started running this stove during the shoulder season + don't have a ton of wood + love to see the flames when I'm around, so we've kept loads smaller.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Perfectly fine.
If the situation changes, emissions efficiency will go up with fewer but larger loads. I also surmise (but this is pure guesstimating the influence of different things on a cat lifetime) that more reloads (aka cold air on a warm/hot cat, even if the bypass is open) may decrease the lifetime a bit - in particular if all other operational procedures as as good as they can be.
But I have not read that people infer this is the case. So that's probably just me being too cautious...
If the situation changes, emissions efficiency will go up with fewer but larger loads. I also surmise (but this is pure guesstimating the influence of different things on a cat lifetime) that more reloads (aka cold air on a warm/hot cat, even if the bypass is open) may decrease the lifetime a bit - in particular if all other operational procedures as as good as they can be.
But I have not read that people infer this is the case. So that's probably just me being too cautious...
