Smokey startup

[qwertyjjj]

We have an outside brick chimney that is maybe 50ft tall, possibly longer.
Every startup it blows all the smoke back into the room for around 1 min until the chimney is warm.
I have tried priming the flue, warning the flue with candles, lighting gel, upside down fires bit nothing prevents it at the beginning.
The place is near a river and hill at the back so the draw must change in winter.
Is there anything I can do?
Chimney fans seem very expensive.

 

[Rickb]

I have the same issue when its not really cold out. I use my propane torch for 30 seconds to warm the flue.

 

[qwertyjjj]

I have the same issue when its not really cold out. I use my propane torch for 30 seconds to warm the flue.

I tried a heat gun but that didn't work. How long do you have to leave the torch on for?

 

[Rickb]

I ussually do around 30 seconds. And I also have to leave the window cracked. We have bad negative pressure.

 

[qwertyjjj]

I ussually do around 30 seconds. And I also have to leave the window cracked. We have bad negative pressure.

I've never understood how leaving a door or window open helps reverse the draft. Surely, by leaving a door open you're letting hot air or and contributing to sucking air down the chimney?

 

[bholler]

I tried a heat gun but that didn't work. How long do you have to leave the torch on for?

If your chimney really is 50' which is extremely tall it will take allot to get that column heated up. I would run a small space heater in the stove. What stove is it? What liner is in the chimney and what size is it?

 

[firefighterjake]

I've never understood how leaving a door or window open helps reverse the draft. Surely, by leaving a door open you're letting hot air or and contributing to sucking air down the chimney?

Just the opposite . . . opening a window helps establish a draft. In my case, I have to do this in the early in the Fall and late in the Spring when the inside and outside temps are very close to each other and a draft is harder to establish. The window typically doesn't have to be open much . . . I open my window an inch or two . . . and once the fire is going I close the window to no ill effect.

 

[qwertyjjj]

If your chimney really is 50' which is extremely tall it will take allot to get that column heated up. I would run a small space heater in the stove. What stove is it? What liner is in the chimney and what size is it?

Attached pics.
Chimney carries on below for a further floor.
The insert I'm not sure - last time I looked maybe 7 or 8" diameter but just a guess.
It's worse when it's colder here. Temperatures -20 Celsius or more in the winter

 

[Lake Girl]

Is the venting an actual steel liner to the top or just clay lined flue? If steel liner, is it insulated? If opening a window helps, would an outside air kit be appropriate?

 

[qwertyjjj]

Is the venting an actual steel liner to the top or just clay lined flue? If steel liner, is it insulated? If opening a window helps, would an outside air kit be appropriate?

Steel liner no insulation.
Why does opening a window reverse the draft? I would add it's not very easy for me to open a window when -20 Celsius outside of you have to leave it open long

 

[blades]

Cracking a window deletes any negative pressure in the home. You didn't mention if this main floor or basement location. Was this a open fire place before the insert? if so then you might have a clean out down stairs at the base. A trick that sometimes works is to stick the out put of a shop vac up that clean out for a bit to push warmer air up the flue-kinda defrost it. 50 ft of an outside 8" internal terra cotta flue assemble is going to take quite a bit to establish a decent draft.

 

[Lake Girl]

I hear you on the temps ... we hit -40C/F at times in the winter.

There are many appliances that draw air from inside the home and move it outside (clothes dryer, kitchen exhaust, bathroom fans). That air has to be made up inside the building envelope. Easy to do when the windows are open; lots tougher when it has to find nooks and crannies to infiltrate through in the winter. If your home is well insulated and well sealed, air infiltration would be minimal and may result in a negative pressure situation in the house and pulling the smoke inside the house... instead of up the chimney.

 

[Lake Girl]

basement location

Mentioned it was on the lower level...

Blades does mention a good option ... if there is a chimney cleanout, outside air kit (OAK) can be installed through the clean-out. What kind of insert is it and does it have an OAK option?

 

[tarzan]

Steel liner no insulation.
Why does opening a window reverse the draft? I would add it's not very easy for me to open a window when -20 Celsius outside of you have to leave it open long

You may be able to establish a fire without opening a window when the temp difference between inside and out is that extreme.

I wouldn't be lighting a fire at -20 C because it would already be lit

As mentioned above, with a lined chimney that tall your next step may be an OAK or insulated liner.

 

[qwertyjjj]

Mentioned it was on the lower level...

Blades does mention a good option ... if there is a chimney cleanout, outside air kit (OAK) can be installed through the clean-out. What kind of insert is it and does it have an OAK option?

There's no cleanout as far as I can see. What would it look like?

 

[Lake Girl]

Either steel or cast iron door about 8" square (could be rectangular) that should be on the outside of the masonry chimney at the base. Here's one from an 1890's house that is a bit unique...


http://hometownbyhandlebar.com

 

[qwertyjjj]

Either steel or cast iron door about 8" square (could be rectangular) that should be on the outside of the masonry chimney at the base. Here's one from an 1890's house that is a bit unique...
View attachment 184133

http://hometownbyhandlebar.com

No, there's nothing like that then.
Entire brick chimney is closed.

 

[Lake Girl]

What model/brand insert? Do you only burn on weekends & evenings or 24/7 or just once in a while? Does the insert have an outside air kit option? Some forum members have hired a chimney contractor to install an OAK; others have rented a core drill and installed themselves.

 

[qwertyjjj]

What model/brand insert? Do you only burn on weekends & evenings or 24/7 or just once in a while? Does the insert have an outside air kit option? Some forum members have hired a chimney contractor to install an OAK; others have rented a core drill and installed themselves.

I'm not sure what it is as there are no markings and the previous owner didn't say.
I'm only burning on weekends and even then only during daytime hours usually.
The draft doesn't usually reverse by the morning even if fire has gone out but by the next weekend it has reversed completely with soot/smoke smell in the house.

Won't a OAK kit be expensive? What does the oak kit do? How will that stop the cold air coming into the house?

Are there fans I can install also to create the up draft before lighting?

 

[Lake Girl]

There may be a plate on the back of the unit from the manufacturer depending on it's age. Others who are dedicated wood burners would likely know if there are other possible locations for tags on the stove. Location in Canada may be helpful in determining more local manufacturers. Do you know who installed it?

When was the last time the chimney was swept? Have you ever had the surround off?

OAK kit themselves are not very expensive ... installation through the brick would be the challenge. Determining if the insert has OAK capability would be the first step. Might want to consult with a local stove shop or chimney sweep.

Went looking for a fan system ... $3,000 or better for what you are suggesting. Not sure if it would alleviate your smoke smell in the house though...

Quality of the wood you are burning? Moisture reading on a fresh split? How long has it been cut, split, stacked? Top covered or otherwise sheltered from rain/snow?

 

[qwertyjjj]

There may be a plate on the back of the unit from the manufacturer depending on it's age. Others who are dedicated wood burners would likely know if there are other possible locations for tags on the stove. Location in Canada may be helpful in determining more local manufacturers. Do you know who installed it?

When was the last time the chimney was swept? Have you ever had the surround off?

OAK kit themselves are not very expensive ... installation through the brick would be the challenge. Determining if the insert has OAK capability would be the first step. Might want to consult with a local stove shop or chimney sweep.

Went looking for a fan system ... $3,000 or better for what you are suggesting. Not sure if it would alleviate your smoke smell in the house though...

Quality of the wood you are burning? Moisture reading on a fresh split? How long has it been cut, split, stacked? Top covered or otherwise sheltered from rain/snow?

Swept in spring.
Wood is good quality hardwood, birch etc dried for over 12 months.
There is a cap on the top.
I cannot put a damper on the top due to over and snow. If there was a damper before, it is not functional now due to the insert being installed.

 

[Lake Girl]

No ... I was asking about the wood The fan like you were looking at seems to be a catch for creosote if you are not running the stove well and have good wood.

 

[qwertyjjj]

Is there any danger of depressurisation?
Say I run the fire but it burns down overnight, that the chimney draft could reverse and push co2, co, or smoke back into the house?

 

[Lake Girl]

With a negative pressure situation like you appear to have, it is possible but not sure how likely... Make sure you have CO detector installed. Do you know if there is a block off plate installed near where the smoke shelf used to be in the chimney?

For most stoves that have an OAK, you are bringing air directly into the body of the stove and not pulling it from your living space. It would prevent the reverse on the chimney keeping the smokey smell out. Need to figure out if the stove has an Outside air hook-up inlet

 

[qwertyjjj]

The stove doesn't have an oak since it was inserted into an old open fireplace. A liner was inserted well inside the old brick chimney.
Opening the door seemed to help but it's difficult to do that when it's -30 Celsius outside

There is no block off plate. Something I need to install but haven't got round to yet.