So why is Harman the only Manufacturer with a bottom feed design?

[Jonkman]

So I'm curious. I am pretty new to pellet stoves in the last year, and I hear the Harman vs. everybody else arguments, Harman is the best, blah blah blah. Now it may very well be that Harmans are the best, and they seem well built and the design of the bottom feed is interesting, vs dropping the pellets in like every other manufacturer does. So that begs the question, why is Harman the only one that does that type of pellet delivery and burning system? Why are 99% of all other pellet stoves the drop in a burn pot design? I would assume that the patent expired a long time ago for Harman's design, so others should be able to copy it or whatever. I mean, if it is better, why aren't other manufacturers doing so? I'm sure somebody here has an answer...

 

[Tonyray]

So I'm curious. I am pretty new to pellet stoves in the last year, and I hear the Harman vs. everybody else arguments, Harman is the best, blah blah blah. Now it may very well be that Harmans are the best, and they seem well built and the design of the bottom feed is interesting, vs dropping the pellets in like every other manufacturer does. So that begs the question, why is Harman the only one that does that type of pellet delivery and burning system? Why are 99% of all other pellet stoves the drop in a burn pot design? I would assume that the patent expired a long time ago for Harman's design, so others should be able to copy it or whatever. I mean, if it is better, why aren't other manufacturers doing so? I'm sure somebody here has an answer...

I really don't know but I assume there must be other stoves with similar setup..
btw: have a few friends who switched over to a Harman due to getting the dreaded Pellet dam alot..[Pellets stacking om top of each other then not feeding in.]
had to always buy short pellets so they wouldn't create the dam..

 

[Jonkman]

I really don't know but I assume there must be other stoves with similar setup..
btw: have a few friends who switched over to a Harman due to getting the dreaded Pellet dam alot..[Pellets stacking om top of each other then not feeding in.]
had to always buy short pellets so they wouldn't create the dam..

HI Tonyray,

I remember shopping for pellet stoves, and I am always researching them just because I'm weird that way, but I have yet to see another stove with the Harman style setup. I just figured it would be so more common than it is...it seems exclusive to Harman. I've never really heard of many people getting the pellet bridge like you say, but then again I am new. I bought a Quadrafire Castile last year, and used it all winter with zero issues.

 

[Bioburner]

There was a stove design that used bottom feed but it went out of business. The issue was back burn into the hopper. Pellefire or some name close. I have one in my collection. Harman solved the issue by using two things. The shuttle on the bottom of the hopper and a vacuum in the burn chamber.

 

[johneh]

The Old Bata vs VHS debate
And the winner is?

 

[heat seeker]

I believe that most Englander stoves are bottom feed.

 

[Tonyray]

HI Tonyray,

I remember shopping for pellet stoves, and I am always researching them just because I'm weird that way, but I have yet to see another stove with the Harman style setup. I just figured it would be so more common than it is...it seems exclusive to Harman. I've never really heard of many people getting the pellet bridge like you say, but then again I am new. I bought a Quadrafire Castile last year, and used it all winter with zero issues.

Hello Jonkman,
pellet Bridge is correct... couldn't remember that term... long [longish pellets deff will cause a bridge is some top feed/drop stoves...
which leaves some good pellets choices a washout for some.
I burned what I think we're the Longest pellets in the Universe.. O'Malley's.... heard a lot of crunch/snap for quite a while as the Harman Slide plate decapitated those pesky varmits..

 

[Tonyray]

The Old Bata vs VHS debate
And the winner is?

Beta was actually the better format for the simple reason that the Tape route in the machine had far less twists/ turns in it's path producing a better quality picture.
[ case anyone was interested in Trivia]...

 

[BrotherBart]

There was a stove design that used bottom feed but it went out of business. The issue was back burn into the hopper. Pellefire or some name close. I have one in my collection. Harman solved the issue by using two things. The shuttle on the bottom of the hopper and a vacuum in the burn chamber.

What pellet stove doesn't have a vacuum in the burn chamber?

 

[johneh]

Beta was actually the better format for the simple reason that the Tape route in the machine had far less twists/ turns in it's path producing a better quality picture.
[ case anyone was interested in Trivia]...

You must be old like me!

 

[Tonyray]

You must be old like me!

Boomer from the 60's......... FAR OUT MAN!!

 

[Jonkman]

The Old Bata vs VHS debate
And the winner is?

Ah, but it's not that...I am not really concerned on this vs that, but rather let's say that one design is better, and everybody knows it...why don't more pellet stoves use the design (except new englanders I suppose as somebody just posted), I would think let's say that it would be at least 50/50 or 70/30... but no..it's like 2/98.

 

[Tonyray]

Ah, but it's not that...I am not really concerned on this vs that, but rather let's say that one design is better, and everybody knows it...why don't more pellet stoves use the design (except new englanders I suppose as somebody just posted), I would think let's say that it would be at least 50/50 or 70/30... but no..it's like 2/98.

I knew that...
you we're making a point using the vhs thingee as comparison...
but A good question about that design.

 

[Jonkman]

I knew that...
you we're making a point using the vhs thingee as comparison...
but A good question about that design.

That wasn't me that was Johneh who originally made that reference I think...anywho, you had the pellet bridge issue, I may have been lucky with my first year's choice of pellets, as they were cut very tiny (like 1/4 inch). I did a few bags of some other brands that were around 3/4 to 1" and didn't have any issues...so I hope I will be OK if I buy 3-4 tons of one of those (probably Pro Pellets).

My next pellet stove will probably be a Harman, just because of what I hear and read about them, but mostly because I never had one before...just didn't work for our current house and the price was a good $1000+ more too...

 

[Tonyray]

That wasn't me that was Johneh who originally made that reference I think...anywho, you had the pellet bridge issue, I may have been lucky with my first year's choice of pellets, as they were cut very tiny (like 1/4 inch). I did a few bags of some other brands that were around 3/4 to 1" and didn't have any issues...so I hope I will be OK if I buy 3-4 tons of one of those (probably Pro Pellets).

My next pellet stove will probably be a Harman, just because of what I hear and read about them, but mostly because I never had one before...just didn't work for our current house and the price was a good $1000+ more too...

One other good point about [free standing Harmans] is the mega Large Ashpans..holds .many many weeks of Ash...

 

[papa bears stove]

I believe Enerzone, Osburn, Drolet and Englander all offer models with bottom feed technology as well.

 

[Jonkman]

One other good point about [free standing Harmans] is the mega Large Ashpans..holds .many many weeks of Ash...

I noticed that, that is really nice...HOWEVER the wife hates "stoves" that come into the room, maybe in the next house I can convince her to get one, I guess it would depend on the layout, etc. She really likes fireplaces or a fireplace with a nice looking insert, hence the Castile insert we have now.

 

[Jonkman]

I believe Enerzone, Osburn, Drolet and Englander all offer models with bottom feed technology as well.

Well, that is good to know. I'll admit the only name in there I recognize is Englander. Thing is, where I live there really isn't much for dealers, and if there are it's only Quadrafire and Harman, or TSC, Home Depot, etc, but they aren't a dealers...just sellers. And most don't even carry stock of anything.

So maybe I was wrong, but it still seems it's not as common I guess? I dunno....

 

[3650]

I've never experienced pellet bridging in any of my other stoves. In fact they have all been pretty much worry free. I've replaced a blower motor on two of them. I had an ignitor go out on one. I replaced gaskets. Pretty common maintenance on any pellet stove. The feed system on all of them have been no issue.
I would never buy another Harmless. It's no great shakes. I've had 5 stoves and I liked all the other stoves better then the Harmless. I've had an Accentra. It doesn't throw all that much heat and chews through pellets. It has a speed bump that builds up on the rise of the burn pot that has to be cleaned daily, sometimes twice. It's got a tiny hopper. It gums up. I'd never buy another.

 

[alternativeheat]

It takes about 15 seconds to scrape the speed bump off with a decent sized screw driver ( works better than the silly Harman tool which is good enough for scraping excess ash off the pot), you don't even shut the stove down. And depending on the pellets and burn rate you may or may not get the speed bump to begin with.

I agree that at least the free standing Harman Accentra doesn't appear to be their hottest output offering. A P series Harman has a certain presence of heat about it by comparison, I think due to the radiating factor vs just blower. You won't find any cats sitting on top of a P61 when in operation even on low !

I do think some drop feed stoves are very efficient. I could use some heat in my basement and I wouldn't toss out the idea of a drop feeder for down down there. I wouldn't toss out the idea of a kerosene heater either if it weren't illegal in this state to put one in ( stupid IMO, I just need temp heat now and then down there to do some wood working, more government BS)..

 

[Bioburner]

What pellet stove doesn't have a vacuum in the burn chamber?

Non that are manufactured today. I believe Earth stove is the only one that is popping up in use. Some larger furnaces and boilers are still using air forced pots with natural draft.

 

[Tonyray]

I've never experienced pellet bridging in any of my other stoves. In fact they have all been pretty much worry free. I've replaced a blower motor on two of them. I had an ignitor go out on one. I replaced gaskets. Pretty common maintenance on any pellet stove. The feed system on all of them have been no issue.
I would never buy another Harmless. It's no great shakes. I've had 5 stoves and I liked all the other stoves better then the Harmless. I've had an Accentra. It doesn't throw all that much heat and chews through pellets. It has a speed bump that builds up on the rise of the burn pot that has to be cleaned daily, sometimes twice. It's got a tiny hopper. It gums up. I'd never buy another.

Being a free standing Harman owner, I wouldn't want a free standing myself... too small of an ash pan for 1..

 

[railfanron]

Hmm. I've had a Harman for 3 years now and all I can say is that it runs and shuts down when it's supposed to on a programmable thermostat. Because my wife is recovering from a very bad accident I haven't put the time into cleaning and upkeep that I would like to. The P43 doesn't seem to mind running Pro Pellets. I have let it run on automatic all winter and it just burns perfectly without as much as opening the door for anything as much as a week at a time (not even to clean the burnpot). I clean it and dump the ash once a month. I burned 3 tons this year. It's five times the stove that my neighbor has. To each his own I guess.
Ron

 

[Wessty]

Drolet Eco-65 is a bottom feeder.

 

[Tonyray]

Being a free standing Harman owner, I wouldn't want a free standing myself... too small of an ash pan for 1..[/QUOTE

Hmm. I've had a Harman for 3 years now and all I can say is that it runs and shuts down when it's supposed to on a programmable thermostat. Because my wife is recovering from a very bad accident I haven't put the time into cleaning and upkeep that I would like to. The P43 doesn't seem to mind running Pro Pellets. I have let it run on automatic all winter and it just burns perfectly without as much as opening the door for anything as much as a week at a time (not even to clean the burnpot). I clean it and dump the ash once a month. I burned 3 tons this year. It's five times the stove that my neighbor has. To each his own I guess.
Ron