Sove turned off at night - House full of smoke...!!!

[geek]

Englanger 25-PDV.

came late last night with family and noticed the stove was off, checked the hopper and had pellets hanging on the wall but nothing in the top auger, hence stove shut off because of no pellets.
Alright, so I placed a full bag in the hopper and turned it on. This was around 2AM.
About 4AM I woke up, didn't hear stove running, a very strong smoke smell..

Turned lights on and the WHOLE house was full of smoke..

Went downstairs quickly and stove was not running and a black tint in the front to the left side, like burned oil but in fact it looks like black water, really black. I assume it was condensation from the intake air of some sort. Looks like it came out from the small hole in the front to the bottom left.

Scary moment because we were sleeping breathing this smoke for a couple hours, how bad is this smoke to your lungs??????
I have 3 children, a teenager and the other 2 are younger (6 and 7 years old).

Smoke is gone but my whole house is just this smell. I turned on the fan for the central AC to see if that helps but smell doesn't go.

What can I do and why did this happen??????????
I really hope our health wasn't affected.......I know this is not carbon monoxide (is it??) but I need some advice here....

.. :-(

 

[kbd627]

Do you have smoke detectors on every level of house? If you do surprised they didn't go off.

 

[kast]

Do you have smoke detectors on every level of house? If you do surprised they didn’t go off.

Great point, I have a CM and Smoke detector in the same room as the stove (as well as other rooms)

It could most definitely be Carbon Monoxide, do you know if you lost power at all during that time? How is your venting setup, how many feet horizontal and vertical?

I have a straight horizontal 18inch out from the house with a cap, and I had to buy a UPS because I would get smoke in the house if the power failed. They recommend at least 3-5 feet of vertical piping, which acts like a natural draft to keep the smoke from backing up into your house.

 

[geek]

yes I have smoke detectors but none went off.....strange....and they work fine....

house built in 2001.

My stove was installed per the manual with an outside air intake for fresh air and at least 3ft vertical rise outside.

 

[TboneMan]

While no type of smoke in your lungs is good for them, pellets should be pure wood and nothing toxic (like plastics). When you think about it, people have been breathing wood smoke for thousands of years. Heck most NE Native Americans had open fire in their long houses and teepe's. Surely natural draft wasn't 100% efficient.


Should you have some other type of respiratory illness, wood smoke would surely irritate and possible worsen your condition.

 

[geek]

We don't have any respiratory problems so far, thank God.

Would a pellet stove create CM at all ?

Also, why did this happen? Stove displayed error code E2 if I remember correctly.

 

[Xena]

yes I have smoke detectors
but none went off........and they work fine....

How can you say they work fine if your house was full of
smoke but the detectors did not go off?

Do not gamble here. I would get new ones. These can save your life
and yes, smoke from a pellet stove can emit CO according to my stove
installation manual. Excessive smoke inhalation is dangerous.

As for the stove and why it happened, I'd call ESW for help.

 

[geek]

I've tried the englander's tech line but lines are busy....

I don't know why but these detectors work, you can test using the button they have.

I guess for whatever reason the smoke is thin or didn't get to a point that would trigger the smoke the detector.

 

[firewarrior820]

I've tried the englander's tech line but lines are busy....

I don't know why but these detectors work, you can test using the button they have.

I guess for whatever reason the smoke is thin or didn't get to a point that would trigger the smoke the detector.

my smoke detector goes off if i open my oven when its on and cooking,and the detector is 12 feet down the hall
TRUST ME YOUR SMOKE IS NOT TO THIN

 

[CowboyAndy]

I've tried the englander's tech line but lines are busy....

I don't know why but these detectors work, you can test using the button they have.

I guess for whatever reason the smoke is thin or didn't get to a point that would trigger the smoke the detector.

my smoke detector goes off if i open my oven when its on and cooking,and the detector is 12 feet down the hall
TRUST ME YOUR SMOKE IS NOT TO THIN

I agree about the smoke detectors, they are no good. They have a shelf life, generally 10 years. But if they didnt go off then you have a problem. Are they hardwired in? Battery operated? The cheaper the detecter, the faster it goes bad. Also consider that the manufacture date could be a year or 2 before the house was built, putting them right around the 10 year mark. Take one down and see if it has a date on it.

Also, carbon monoxide is a byproduct of combustion. Even if you were inhaling it, if you are still alive, then you are fine.

 

[slls]

When I burned in my stove, the smoke detector went off with no visible smoke, yours are no good.

 

[geek]

strange and will replace them but they work when I open the oven also.

I also did the test using the button and the high pitch noise is present.

 

[krooser]

Any time you burn a carbon based fuel carbon monoxide will be created. I'm sure you didn't suffer any bad health effects from a short exposure. This stuff is pretty much non-hazrdous... no chemicals or such stuff in the smoke. Get the problem, whatever it is, repaired.

Good luck.

 

[seige101]

I've tried the englander's tech line but lines are busy....

I don't know why but these detectors work, you can test using the button they have.

I guess for whatever reason the smoke is thin or didn't get to a point that would trigger the smoke the detector.

The test button directly bypasses the sensor and sounds the alarm.

They should be replaced every 5 years as per the manufacturer!
If there was as much smoke as you said there they should have went off.

Please replace these as soon as possible!

 

[webbie]

Back to the stove!
Does this have electric start?
Was it actually going well when you went to bed?

 

[Lobstah]

Actually...some of the better smoke detectors are much more particular about what will trigger them.
No...you didn't do any harm to your self with that short term exposure.

Sounds like your blower stopped working though... definitely need to call the manufacturer or the dealer where you bought it.

 

[geek]

Back to the stove!
Does this have electric start?
Was it actually going well when you went to bed?

the stove has the ignition auto start if that's what you're asking; and not sure if it ever started properly. When I poured more pellets into the hopper I then turned it on and went to bed upstairs, stove was going through the start up mode. It looks like something happened that the start up failed for whatever reason, could it be mis-feed of pellets due to a jam?

After the problem I then restarted it after cleaning burn pot again and at some point I think I heard like a 'clunk' noise, like the auger bumped into something but then worked fine.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hmmm . . . I'm curious to learn more about the stove . . . sounds like you had a proper vent set-up which should in theory prevent your stove from doing this and prevent smoke from entering the house through natural ventilation of the vent pipe.

As for the smoke detectors and wood smoke . . . I believe I may be able to shed some light here for you.

First off, the age of the smoke detectors are important as Cowboy Andy mentioned. Smoke detectors should be replaced every 10 years per NFPA and other established agencies. Studies have shown that at around 10 years the reliabilty factor begins to drop off (some do not work as well or do not work at all earlier than ten years and some last for far more than ten years . . . but 10 years is the general cut-off date.) Manufacturers may encourage you to replace the smoke detector more often (which of course is good for them and their bottom line . . . and honestly the small costs of replacing them more frequently is not necessarily a bad thing either.) Carbon monoxide detectors however should be replaced every 5 years or so.

Now as to whether your smoke detectors are faulty or not. First off, it's a little known fact (although Krooser knows this) that pushing the test button on your detector is only testing two things -- if there is power to the detector and if the audible alarm works. The reason for this is that the number one reason smoke detectors in a home fail to activate in most fires -- and especially fatal fires -- is they have been disconnected, the battery has been pulled, the circuit breaker controlling the smoke detectors has been shut off, etc. Pushing the test button does nothing in terms of establishing whether the sensing device is working or not.

So are your detectors faulty? Depends. Here's Firefighterjake's down and dirty Smoke Detector 101 Lesson. There are two different types of detectors sold on the market: ionization and photo-electric. One type detects a fast, flaming fire (i.e. a grease fire) which tends to produce smoke molecules that are a bit different than the smoke molecules produced in a slow, smoldering fire (i.e. a cigarette left smoldering on a couch . . . although many states now have fire safe cigarettes . . . and that's a topic for a different day).

Both types are designed to activate to set parameters and the experts (the folks that sit on the NFPA Committee that govern smoke alarms and such) state both types of detectors built to the UL standard will activate before a situation is deemed untenable to life (or some words to that effect.) This said, it is very possible to have a situation where you can have a very smokey environment and the detector or detectors may not activate . . . until it reaches that set parameter at which point the detector should in theory activate. It is also very possible that you can have a detector which goes off at the proverbial drop of the hat with a small grease fire from bacon fat dripping in the oven or burned toast . . . but that same detector may not activate with a pellet stove smoking up the whole house (again . . . in theory the detector regardless of the type should activate before the situation is dire.)

The experts say the environment may be quite smokey . . . it may be so bad that is is hard to see and may be uncomfortable to breathe even . . . but they say the detectors will activate before the conditions are deemed inhospitable for life. So . . . it is possible that your detectors are working fine . . . but you didn't reach that set level.

This said . . . I am a big proponent of either using dual ion/photo-electric smoke detectors or installing one of each different types in a home . . . call it crazy, but I want to have as much early warning as possible . . . and when my house is filling up with smoke I want to know about it well before some experts and some standard say a detector should go off and let me know that the environment is now becoming inhospitable. Call me crazy, but if I'm asleep and my house starts to fill up with smoke (either type of smoke) I want as early warning as possible.

At least one state -- Vermont -- now specifically requires photo-electric detectors in homes following a multi fire fatality in Bennington I think it was. I think this is a step in the right direction . . . but again I think it is much wiser to not pick one technology over another and as such highly encourage folks to go with a dual ion/PE detector or purchase both types in their homes. You should also be aware that some of the newer tech that goes with these new detectors is pretty neat as well -- especially the ones with built-in hush features so you can silence your detector for known false alarms, wireless interconnected smoke detectors (so if one goes off they all go off), etc.

Carbon monoxide detectors: Hopefully folks here at hearth.com have one or more. They work. They save lives. The newer generation of CO detectors is much better than the stuff on the market 10 years ago or so . . . plus it's much cheaper. CO is in fact (as mentioned by other members) present anytime anything carbon-based burns (which includes oil, propane, wood and yes even wood pellets.) CO is much more insidious than smoke . . . you may not smell it or see it . . . and yet it can kill with symptoms mimicing the flu (nausea, headache, dizziness, weakness, etc.) in the early stages. So, while there may have been CO in the air (if there is smoke there usually is CO so I would guess that there may have been some low levels in your home) . . . I would also suspect that by now any residual CO has left your body as CO will gradually leave your system when you are away from the CO-filled environment.

Final advice: I might suggest considering dual smokes in your home (and since you're at Year 6 you might want to start replacing a few at a time so when you reach Year 10 you don't have to pony up a lot of money to replace every detector in the home) . . . and a CO detector is a wicked good idea if you do not have one . . . and most definitely see what caused the pellet stove to dump smoke in your home.

 

[geek]

Englander has not even returned my 2 emails on this matter........I guess now I have to live with the question of why this happened and how to prevent it......

This is surprising knowing the great support they usually offer, I hope their customer support orientation is not degrading........

 

[dbjc364]

the first time it happened to me was because the ol' man forgot to fill with pellets{his job}-and it has it in the manual. I was on computor and smelled the smoke. I dug out the manual and it said to shut off pellet feed and basically wait- open window-door to let smoke out if some should go into hopper and filter out,which some did. Don't shut off any blowers or pull the plug if u run out of pellets, and auger should be purged. I just got out every little bit I could. I just peeked in there-but didnt let most of it escape-just a little came out the slits. This is why we bought the extension-so this wouldnt happen{hopefully never again}. After things calmed down, I emptied out the five bowls left in the hopper- and vacummed real good and loaded up again. the start up procedure was basic- but I watched it and stayed home to be sure it was running properly again.-and it was fine. Now this same thing could happen during a power outage-but at least I feel a bit more prepared and not as surprised. I'm not surprised that your smoke detectors didnt go off- as mine are sensitive to my kitchen cook stove- and burnt toast,but other stuff their not. we watched a movie that explained how they worked-how many houses are burnt because they failed to detect in time-even though they were working. Since then we have both read all of the manual-and better smoke detectors are on our priority list.

 

[woodsman23]

1st thing is never go to bed until the stove has restarted and is running normal. With that said i think what happened is that when the pellets hung in the hopper and you said you just poured more in the stove went to restart and there were no pellets coming down the auger (not primed yet with pellets you added). This caused the stove to try and restart but did not because no pellets were present then the stove goes into another cycle of restart and during this time pellets began to come out during the restart and most likely overfilled the burn pot. Then when it ignited the stove got to hot and shut itself down causing all the smoke. This is just a theory but has happened to others before. Again never leave the stove until you have a fire and it is burning normal. also put a handful of pellets in the burn pot next time this happens and allow them to ingnite while waiting for more pellets to prime the auger.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Englander has not even returned my 2 emails on this matter........I guess now I have to live with the question of why this happened and how to prevent it......

This is surprising knowing the great support they usually offer, I hope their customer support orientation is not degrading........

e mails are returned within 24 hours (pending weekends and holidays )not sure what is happening with that, but, send me an e mail tonight with your phone number (daytime number please) i will have you contacted tomorrow 12/4/08 before the day is out. send e mail to [email protected] this will get to my personal computer at my desk. please also "cc" it to my home e mail [email protected] i will look fo it before i go to work tomorrow and take it with me to be sure i get you taken care of.

 

[Lobstah]

"1st thing is never go to bed until the stove has restarted and is running normal."

So I take it you would never run a stove on a thermostat then?

Jim

 

[dbjc364]

lol... :lol:

 

[geek]

Englander has not even returned my 2 emails on this matter........I guess now I have to live with the question of why this happened and how to prevent it......

This is surprising knowing the great support they usually offer, I hope their customer support orientation is not degrading........

e mails are returned within 24 hours (pending weekends and holidays )not sure what is happening with that, but, send me an e mail tonight with your phone number (daytime number please) i will have you contacted tomorrow 12/4/08 before the day is out. send e mail to [email protected] this will get to my personal computer at my desk. please also "cc" it to my home e mail [email protected] i will look fo it before i go to work tomorrow and take it with me to be sure i get you taken care of.

you got email, note that my 1st email to your service dept was Monday Nov.24 and the 2nd on Nov 25.