Stainless Liner Poor Wear and Install Key Damper?

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys,

Posted awhile ago about this and there was at least some thoughts of me having too strong of a draft. I bought a stainless liner from Duravent and a brand new Englander 32-NC last year. Either way I experienced what I think was a lot of creosote buildup and more wear than is probably normal on the liner as well. I was hoping to get some feedback on both of these things.

1.) I want to install a double wall key damper like the one linked (stove pipe is already double wall). One of my concerns is that I believe the only way I am going to be able to install it is on pipe that is not vertical. I'm not sure if this is required or will increase my chances of smoke coming back into the house or not. You can see from this picture where I propose the damper. This is what I think I would install.

Double Wall Stove Pipe Damper | In Line Black Double Wall Damper - Rockford Chimney

The double wall stove pipe inline damper allows for greater control over the draft in stove pipe. The inline damper comes installed inside 6" pipe length.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

2.) I am concerned about the wear I have experienced from this setup being used less than a burning season. I only started burning in it this January and until sometime around April. I plan to pay more attention to the moisture content in my wood but also hope the damper will help too. There were some concerns of my stove burning a little hotter than it should and me not having goo control over it. Having that said, the first two pictures here show my cap and the top piece of oval liner. I have not cleaned it yet. I was hoping that someone could tell me if this just looks like normal wear or if it is indeed excessive? It looks like there is already a good bit of rust and corrosion. I am guessing it is probably okay to use but this top portion concerns me. The last one is the horizontal run through the wall. I also had a picture of what the actual stove pipe but they both seem like they had nice buildup. Thoughts?

 

[bholler]

Hey guys,

Posted awhile ago about this and there was at least some thoughts of me having too strong of a draft. I bought a stainless liner from Duravent and a brand new Englander 32-NC last year. Either way I experienced what I think was a lot of creosote buildup and more wear than is probably normal on the liner as well. I was hoping to get some feedback on both of these things.

1.) I want to install a double wall key damper like the one linked (stove pipe is already double wall). One of my concerns is that I believe the only way I am going to be able to install it is on pipe that is not vertical. I'm not sure if this is required or will increase my chances of smoke coming back into the house or not. You can see from this picture where I propose the damper. This is what I think I would install.

Double Wall Stove Pipe Damper | In Line Black Double Wall Damper - Rockford Chimney

The double wall stove pipe inline damper allows for greater control over the draft in stove pipe. The inline damper comes installed inside 6" pipe length.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

View attachment 331940

2.) I am concerned about the wear I have experienced from this setup being used less than a burning season. I only started burning in it this January and until sometime around April. I plan to pay more attention to the moisture content in my wood but also hope the damper will help too. There were some concerns of my stove burning a little hotter than it should and me not having goo control over it. Having that said, the first two pictures here show my cap and the top piece of oval liner. I have not cleaned it yet. I was hoping that someone could tell me if this just looks like normal wear or if it is indeed excessive? It looks like there is already a good bit of rust and corrosion. I am guessing it is probably okay to use but this top portion concerns me. The last one is the horizontal run through the wall. I also had a picture of what the actual stove pipe but they both seem like they had nice buildup. Thoughts?
View attachment 331941View attachment 331942View attachment 331943

What wear are you referring to??? I just see lots of creosote

 

[Hexa Fox]

What wear are you referring to??? I just see lots of creosote

Hey bholler,

Thanks for responding. So the very first picture on the second part is the very top of the oval liner with the cap removed. To me it looks like there is already some rust and corrosion forming?

 

[begreen]

I'm not getting the relationship between what is shown, creosote buildup, and adding a key damper. This looks more like either too little draft, damp wood, or the fire being choked down too much.

I'm trying to understand why there would be any rust showing in the upper liner. What product or whose liner is this? Was there a chimney fire last season?

 

[Hexa Fox]

I'm not getting the relationship between what is shown, creosote buildup, and adding a key damper. This looks more like either too little draft, damp wood, or the fire being choked down too much.

I'm trying to understand why there would be any rust showing in the upper liner. What product or whose liner is this?

Hey begreen,

It is the Duraliner oval liner from Duravent. I know you cannot remember everything but I posted here last year while I was actively burning. The thermometer that I choose was indicating that I was basically over heating the stove. You guys recommended an infrared temp gun which showed that the thermometer was around 200 degrees off.

There were still concerns that the stove was getting too hot and I did not have adequate control over it. For instance, after I got a nice fire going I could completely close off the air to the stove and while it helped it seemed like the fire would burn full blast until the wood was coals. My burn times definitely seemed to be less than other feedback that I have gotten too.

Regardless I don't think trying a key damper could hurt. If it turns out to cause more issues it is easily removed since I am not installing it in the pipe and can just remove and replace. However, is it okay to install a key damper on an angle like this that is not perfectly vertical?

 

[Hexa Fox]

Here is a link to one of my discussions with pictures. You can see that the firebox is not even overloaded with wood and the indicator in the second picture seems to be showing 1,000 degrees. So even if it is around 200 degrees off that still puts the stove around 800 and the air is fully closed.

Thread 'Englander 32-NC Overheat?'

Jan 23, 2024

Hey guys,

So I have already went back and read some of the other forums on this topic. Having that said, I just got my Englander up and running and all seems to be going well so far. However, according to my new thermometer it seems to be regularly overheating... by a lot. So last night I loaded the stove but it did not fill it to the very top because I knew it was suppose to warm up in the morning. Anyway as you can see according to the thermometer it got above 900f. The stove did get hot but even stranger today I loaded the stove in the morning to get the fire going again and once...

• Hexa Fox
• Replies: 47
• Forum: SBI: Century,Drolet,Osburn,Valcourt,Englander

 

[begreen]

Thanks, I've reading some older threads as a memory refresh. With a basement install, I'm guessing this is a pretty tall liner. A key damper won't hurt and it's ok to put it on the diagonal connector. Have the boost air ports been closed off on the stove?

 

[Hexa Fox]

Thanks, I've reading some older threads as a memory refresh. With a basement install, I'm guessing this is a pretty tall liner. A key damper won't hurt and it's ok to put it on the diagonal connector. Have the boost air ports been closed off on the stove?

You guys helped me calculate the overall rise but I cannot remember exactly what it was. Having that said, from the tee inside the thimble, the chimney rises up almost exactly 17'. I also got an extra 12" or so from the liner protruding out of the chimney. Then add a few feet for the wood stove pipe to the thimble.

Sorry I'm confused, I have never heard of "boost air" on a wood stove? I thought maybe you were talking about where you would attach a blower but I Googled this term and I am even more confused.

You also got me thinking. I thought that a drawback of the Englander that I bought is that it did not have a blower port. I took a picture of the back of mine. Is this a blower port or maybe what you are talking about? I mentioned to you guys once before that my ash drawer has a rather significant gap in it and could be causing this but maybe air is getting through this port?

 

[begreen]

Boost air feeds the fire for easier and faster startup. However, they are unregulated and can provide too much air in some conditions, once the stove is warmed up. IIRC the boost air ports are small holes on the bottom of the stove right behind the front legs. A wad of aluminum foil or a magnet can be placed over them to test if that makes stove regulation better. There are several older 30-NC threads on this topic.

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

I do not see rust, however I suspect a overly choked fire because of all the the creosote at the complete top, possibly insufficiently seasoned wood.
Take an existing split, re-split it in 2, measure your moisture in the middle of the newly fresh opened face with your meter and see what that gives you.
I have 28 feet of exterior chimney, 17 feet of chimney is not very long and most likely not causing an overdraft condition. On my PE I stuffed the 1/2'' boost air hole with new left over 5/8'' door gasket, works extremely well, very safe and easy to do.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I do not see rust, however I suspect a overly choked fire because of all the the creosote at the complete top, possibly insufficiently seasoned wood.
Take an existing split, re-split it in 2, measure your moisture in the middle of the newly fresh opened face with your meter and see what that gives you.
I have 28 feet of exterior chimney, 17 feet of chimney is not very long and most likely not causing an overdraft condition. On my PE I stuffed the 1/2'' boost air hole with new left over 5/8'' door gasket, works extremely well, very safe and easy to do.

Thanks for the response. I have been looking for something similar on my Englander. If you are facing the stove there is a hole on the lower right side that I would say is probably a little more than a half inch in diameter.

Some of my wood not being properly seasoned could very well be the problem. I burned an assortment of stuff last year and in the past I just burned through the terracotta liner with an old school Fisher stove. Some of the behavior I got from the stove led me to believe the wood was not seasoned enough to be burning.

I know that some of it was properly seasoned though but that wood especially got away from me while burning it. It seemed to burn up very quickly and I was having to load the stove even more often than my old Fisher. I am hoping that a key damper will help me keep better control of it as well as get better burn times. The one I linked is suppose to arrive tomorrow.

The wood that I have in now will give me a bias reading because it has been inside for some time and that first rack is always more seasoned. I still have a good bit of ash that has now been split and stacked for close to two years now. I will carry some of that in next, make a split and try to start getting some readings.

 

[stoveliker]

Measure the wood you plan to burn but that you expect to be the worst (youngest, thickest, densest -e.g. oak).

Measuring your best wood might not inform you enough of what it is going to be like this winter....

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

2 year old Ash should be super dry and will probably burn very fast, try burning some less seasoned wood mixed in with your Ash.
This year some of my wood is 3 years old and it really is too dry, throws a heck of a lot of heat but burns much faster.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the response. I have been looking for something similar on my Englander. If you are facing the stove there is a hole on the lower right side that I would say is probably a little more than a half inch in diameter.

Some of my wood not being properly seasoned could very well be the problem. I burned an assortment of stuff last year and in the past I just burned through the terracotta liner with an old school Fisher stove. Some of the behavior I got from the stove led me to believe the wood was not seasoned enough to be burning.

I know that some of it was properly seasoned though but that wood especially got away from me while burning it. It seemed to burn up very quickly and I was having to load the stove even more often than my old Fisher. I am hoping that a key damper will help me keep better control of it as well as get better burn times. The one I linked is suppose to arrive tomorrow.

The wood that I have in now will give me a bias reading because it has been inside for some time and that first rack is always more seasoned. I still have a good bit of ash that has now been split and stacked for close to two years now. I will carry some of that in next, make a split and try to start getting some readings.

From the look of your chimney you can't choke the stove down anymore. You are either running it incorrectly or you have wet wood. Your chimney should absolutely not look like that.

 

[stoveliker]

I burn 4 and 5 year old wood this winter. Last year 4 year old wood. It's not too dry for my system.

If it takes off on you, use a key damper as you are planning to, and dial down the air earlier but in steps (not all at once).

 

[Hexa Fox]

From the look of your chimney you can't choke the stove down anymore. You are either running it incorrectly or you have wet wood. Your chimney should absolutely not look like that.

I burn 4 and 5 year old wood this winter. Last year 4 year old wood. It's not too dry for my system.

If it takes off on you, use a key damper as you are planning to, and dial down the air earlier but in steps (not all at once).

Thanks guys, I am confused about bhollers response though. Are you saying that you are fairly certain a key damper is only going to add to my issues? In your opinion is it something I can try? I just got it in the mail today. It was nice out today so I got my entire system cleaned out. It was absolutely not fun using the soot eater from the roof. I got it done and the cap back on and secured though. I held my phone into the thimble and took some more pictures. The bottom part of the liner looks significantly better than the top piece from my first set of photos. Overall there is still a lot of that glossy stuff left over from what I am guessing is my wood being too wet or my fire getting too hot.

I am no expert, especially since I just began using a secondary air stove and a liner. However, I did burn an assortment of stuff last year and some of the wood definitely gave me indicators that it was not properly seasoned. For instance, I had to keep the air wide open and even the door cracked in some instances. Having that said, there was a lot of stuff that as soon as I threw it on top of the hot coals it took off right away and never stopped chugging even with the air completely closed off.

 

[stoveliker]

You have described two situations, burning wet wood and burning wood that takes off too fast.
The wet wood produced the glossy stuff.
The other wood was dry.


Solution for the first is don't do that again and for the second you may need a key damper.

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

Thanks guys, I am confused about bhollers response though. Are you saying that you are fairly certain a key damper is only going to add to my issues? In your opinion is it something I can try? I just got it in the mail today. It was nice out today so I got my entire system cleaned out. It was absolutely not fun using the soot eater from the roof. I got it done and the cap back on and secured though. I held my phone into the thimble and took some more pictures. The bottom part of the liner looks significantly better than the top piece from my first set of photos. Overall there is still a lot of that glossy stuff left over from what I am guessing is my wood being too wet or my fire getting too hot.

I am no expert, especially since I just began using a secondary air stove and a liner. However, I did burn an assortment of stuff last year and some of the wood definitely gave me indicators that it was not properly seasoned. For instance, I had to keep the air wide open and even the door cracked in some instances. Having that said, there was a lot of stuff that as soon as I threw it on top of the hot coals it took off right away and never stopped chugging even with the air completely closed off.

The top of my chimney is always dirtier and holds more creosote than the bottom of my chimney because as the smoke moves up the chimney the top is cooler than the bottom.
A fairly easy telltale method of detecting unseasoned wood is when you pick up a split if it is heavier than a similarly sized seasoned dryer split you know not to burn it immediately, however you can burn a unseasoned split by placing it over 2-3 or 4 pieces of dry seasoned wood.
Stove manufacturers DO NOT recommend using a key damper unless there is an extreme overdraft problem. A very cold chimney can create a cold bubble that basically blocks the flue and the draft.

 

[stoveliker]

Many folks use a key damper with great results. Stove mfgs can't legally advise to use one.

I see you have a 17 ft or so stove. It's more likely you'll be able to control the fire by turning down the air when using dry wood sooner.than that you need a damper.
Turn down in steps and start sooner if you notice your fire is taking beyond control. I do not know if it is taking off this way or just behaving normally (which may look concerning for folks used to anemic behavior of wet wood...)

 

[bholler]

Many folks use a key damper with great results. Stove mfgs can't legally advise to use one.

I see you have a 17 ft or so stove. It's more likely you'll be able to control the fire by turning down the air when using dry wood sooner.than that you need a damper.
Turn down in steps and start sooner if you notice your fire is taking beyond control. I do not know if it is taking off this way or just behaving normally (which may look concerning for folks used to anemic behavior of wet wood...)

Absolutely true. But from what I see in the chimney on this thread I absolutely would not recommend adding another variable until the creosote buildup is under control.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys,

I received my key damper yesterday (link below). I tried to dry fit it today to try and plan out how I would install it. It clearly says for double wall applications but the 'mesh' looking side does not fit together with my double wall stove pipe at all. Is there something I am missing?

Double Wall Stove Pipe Damper | In Line Black Double Wall Damper - Rockford Chimney

The double wall stove pipe inline damper allows for greater control over the draft in stove pipe. The inline damper comes installed inside 6" pipe length.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

Normally you purchase a double wall stove damper from the same manufacturer as your double wall stove pipe, they normally fit as easily as the stovepipe.

 

[begreen]

Hey guys,

I received my key damper yesterday (link below). I tried to dry fit it today to try and plan out how I would install it. It clearly says for double wall applications but the 'mesh' looking side does not fit together with my double wall stove pipe at all. Is there something I am missing?

Double Wall Stove Pipe Damper | In Line Black Double Wall Damper - Rockford Chimney

The double wall stove pipe inline damper allows for greater control over the draft in stove pipe. The inline damper comes installed inside 6" pipe length.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

What brand stove pipe is on the stove now?
I suspect this may be a Ventis fitting meant to fit Rockford's stove pipe. Call their support in the morning.

 

[Hexa Fox]

What brand stove pipe is on the stove now?
I suspect this may be a Ventis fitting meant to fit Rockford's stove pipe. Call their support in the morning.

Normally you purchase a double wall stove damper from the same manufacturer as your double wall stove pipe, they normally fit as easily as the stovepipe.

I feel really dumb now. The brand was from Selkirk and they actually do have a key damper available. I even had the Selkirk ones pulled up on my computer but bought this one from Rockford Chimney in a hurry before I went to bed one night. I was actually looking at what it would cost to replace the entire stove pipe assembly with Rockford Chimney pipe because of how quality this key damper is. However, it would cost me several hundred dollars. I think I will just order the Selkirk one and be done with it.

Also can someone tell me if the key damper can be installed directly into the neck of my Englander? This stove requires an adapter and the Selkirk fits well but I don't like it. If you as much as breath on it, it seems to want to move. Admittedly I never screwed this pipe together last year. Back to the point I dry fitted this key damper directly into the stove and it seems to fit better than the adapter. So is it okay to install the key damper where the adapter is suppose to go as long as it is a good fit?

 

[begreen]

Yes, the key damper can be there. Just be sure to wear a glove when adjusting. It will get very hot.

Before ordering, did you try blocking off the boost air ports and running the stove that way for several fires?