Still having problems with Jotul Oslo

[buffygirl]

I Can't seem to control these fires at night. Last night put in 3 logs - cherry and oak on top of couple of inches of hot coals - had good 4 inches of clearance on top --waited a bit until it caught ahold then at 375 degrees shut the thing down so it wouldn't run away with me. Looked good for a while maybe 20 minutes the flame quited down and I got the single stream of flame in the center back -- just about the time I was ready to go to bed -- flames started up in the right rear back and then slowly all around --m this is with the front control shut up as tight as I can get it. The next thing I know the wood is engulfed in flames and it continues until it reaches 600 degrees -- we start to panic cause the wood box is probably over half full -- we stick some extra gasket tape into the front where the air flow lever is -- seems to do nothing. We have a chimney damper so we shut it up --which seems to slow it down a bit -- it never got past 610-620 but why won't it shut up. We checked all the doors and have done the dollar bill test on all openings but air is getting to the flame somehow. I love the stove but I'm not liking the way I'm not able to control it. We have checked the air flow and it is moving okay. Where is the air coming from?? Anyone else have an out of control Jotul??
Buffygirl
Jotul Oslo 500 new this Fall 09
Old Vermont Castings Catalytic Burner(19 years) Retired

 

[pen]

what kind of stove top temps are you hoping for? I aim for 550-650 as being a good burn for my stove. I wouldn't wink at 700.

Much less than 550 on a fresh load of wood and I'd be smothering it, smoking up the neighborhood. I see you used to have a cat stove. Perhaps you were used to a long slow burn with that old girl? If so, non-cat stoves don't burn quite that same way.


pen

 

[buffygirl]

Pen-- Yes, I am used to a long slow burn -- I'm also used to being able to control the flame when I shut the stove up. Am I expecting too much? When I shut up the front air flow-should the flame not subside? Why should it continue to escalate? Especially 250 degrees more??? I'm not liking this thing right now.

I'm also not sure how to work these forums?
Thanks for your help.

 

[ashpanannie]

Mine works that way also, when the wood is properly seasoned. You should be seeing a fine secondary burn when your stove is tamped down like that, and if you go outside you will see nothing coming from your chimney. That is exactly how you would want to burn in the dead of winter, but perhaps it is too much for this season and seems to be baking you out of the house as it would here.

 

[buffygirl]

Thanks Ashpanannie -- I'm learning from all of you -- the books that came with the stove are lacking sorely. They give very little info on what to expect from this thing. Do you have a stove top thermometer and if so, does it ever exceed 600 after you shut it up -- it just seems once I shut this down it should slow down the burn. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't - all the wood I'm burning is well seasoned. I find this stove very easy to get a fire started but I just can't seem to get a handle on the burning. I'm controlling the temp with the size and amount of wood I put in.
Appreciate any info you can send my way.


Buffygirl
New Jotul Oslo this Fall 09
Old Vermont Casting Catalytic (19 years now retired)

 

[ashpanannie]

I'm controlling the temp with the size and amount of wood I put in.

Exactly! That and the amount of red coals piled up. You will find your stove still throws plenty of heat even when it seems to be mostly glowing coals left. You will come to love this stove, I think, and it just takes a short time to learn its quirks. You are right, the manual is lacking.

 

[lma58]

I'm having the exact same problem. No way do I dare to pack the thing with wood, the last time I did that, I closed the primary air 100% and the stove top temp continued to rise(650+ and rising) to the point where I had to find a way to temporarily block off air entering the secondary hole in the back bottom. That helped. I've since added a stove pipe damper, which only seems to help a little. I have a 20' block chimney with clay liners and a stainless liner in that. I really don't know what else to do, I can just barely get an over night since I don't dare to over fill it. I rebuilt the thing and have since used smoke to try to find where smoke is entering and I find nothing. I'm very confident the stove is tight. I just got rid of a VC Defiant Encore Cat. that was completely controllable.

It seems like I've seen several threads on here with similar concerns on their new Oslo's.

 

[johnn]

Not sure, but dont you need around 500+ for secondary to happen? (?). Are most of those threads with similiar concerns from first time Jotul users? Are the previous models also like this. I`ve been looking at the 500,600 for use in front of fireplace, which will be around 27,28 feet of liner,, and am wondering how that would effect the issue? Sounds like the type of heat i would be looking for, but perhaps eat more fuel than i was hoping

 

[buffygirl]

Ima58 - thanks for your reply -- you sound like you are experiencing the exact same situations we are. I wonder what will happen when it really gets cold out -- I'm getting so much draw now that I can't leave the thing and go anywhere--I researched this stove before I bought it and everybody loved it - so where are we going wrong?? Coming from a VC CAT I realize we will get more flame but the control factor scares me and no way will this keep fire for 9 hours--If I can get a factory rep I need to talk to somebody but there is no way to contact them on the web site. BUT we think something is not right here. Works great with small fires abut to stoke for the night -- NO WAY -- My hubby wants the VC CAT back!




Buffygirl
New JOTUL Oslo Fall 09
Coming off 19 years VC CAT (retired)

 

[ansehnlich1]

my oslo (ozzie) has 6 inch stainless liner with poured insulation running about 22 feet up an outside brick chimney....

I've never had a situation where I thought the stove was out of control.

Heck, my stove won't continue a secondary burn if I shut the air off the whole way, I always have to keep that puppy open a smidge.

If I were you I'd check the ash pan door and make sure that bad boy is seated properly, I mean, if there's air coming in under the fire there it'd make 'er go hot in a hurry.

That being said, I've had my stove run at 650 and it doesn't bother me a tad, she'll take that temp easy....

I've seen it up to 700 before and and it didn't even blink, though I'm not gonna let er go above that if I can help it

I don't get any more than 4 or 5 hours of real burnin time out of my stove, but she throw's heat long after that visible burn is done, and she always has hot coals in the mornin.

I've been heating 2000 sq. ft. with my stove for a couple years now, south PA, can get into the teens regular over winter.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I Can't seem to control these fires at night. Last night put in 3 logs - cherry and oak on top of couple of inches of hot coals - had good 4 inches of clearance on top --waited a bit until it caught ahold then at 375 degrees shut the thing down so it wouldn't run away with me. Looked good for a while maybe 20 minutes the flame quited down and I got the single stream of flame in the center back -- just about the time I was ready to go to bed -- flames started up in the right rear back and then slowly all around --m this is with the front control shut up as tight as I can get it. The next thing I know the wood is engulfed in flames and it continues until it reaches 600 degrees -- we start to panic cause the wood box is probably over half full -- we stick some extra gasket tape into the front where the air flow lever is -- seems to do nothing. We have a chimney damper so we shut it up --which seems to slow it down a bit -- it never got past 610-620 but why won't it shut up. We checked all the doors and have done the dollar bill test on all openings but air is getting to the flame somehow. I love the stove but I'm not liking the way I'm not able to control it. We have checked the air flow and it is moving okay. Where is the air coming from?? Anyone else have an out of control Jotul??
Buffygirl
Jotul Oslo 500 new this Fall 09
Old Vermont Castings Catalytic Burner(19 years) Retired

It seems your concern isn't that the stove is hitting 600 degrees, but that it is hitting 600 degrees without you wanting it to get that high. I have an old Vigilant and when I shut down the air the temps seem to initially raise and then settle down.

So, my question is, once you shut the air down and it spikes have you sat and watched to see what happens next? Will it settle down a bit or does it stay at a high temp?

 

[myzamboni]

you are damping down the stove too soon. Let it rip until you get ~450-500 stovetop temp and then shut the air down. The secondaries will start rolling and the stove will cruise at steady temp. Since you are shutting the air down ( you can't shut it off with EPA stoves), the fuel in the stove is slowing working its way up to the temps where secondary burns occur.

 

[lma58]

Buffygirl... yes, we do seem to have the same situation. It seems to only happen to me if I load the stove more than half full. And once it gets to that point of no return it really is a point of no return. It is as if the air from the secondary combustion is providing air for the primary burn as well. I would really think that with the primary air shut off 100%, and good secondary burn going on, I should not have a fire box full of flames, but I do. I have had some nice situations, say with 3 mid size splits, where i shut the air 90% and have nice secondary burn going on and very little flames from the wood itself, and a pretty steady stove top temp. of like 450... slowly dropping over and hour or two to about 400. But with a full load, I can't make that happen. The stove top temp will reach 650 and be on a steady climb. I have a large magnet I was able to place over the secondary hole in the bottom back to block off most of the air flow, and even at that, the stove took several hours to drop back below 500 degrees, and I still saw lots of flames for longer than I would have thought. My wood is 3 years old, stored in a wood shed, so it is nice and dry. It does seem to help to mix in some semi seasoned wood, but it shouldn't require that. Like your husband, my wife is mumbling something about getting the Encore back..lol

 

[begreen]

The concerns are understandable, but the stove sounds like it is working correctly. Modern stoves don't burn like the old timers and don't allow for a complete shut off of the air. This is a good thing because it doesn't allow the fire to sit and smolder. The old stoves weren't called smoke dragons for nothing. The main reason for this title is because people would load them up and then shut down the air supply and they would smoke for hours. Serious pollution and creosote production is what's happening when one does this.

The solution is to run the stove with a partial load of fuel until it gets cold outside. Don't try to go for an overnight burn in fall and spring. When it gets in the 20s or lower and the wind is blowing, load the stove with more wood when filling. A 650 degree Oslo stove top is very welcome in the dead of winter. The Oslo can burn at this temp for hours with no harm. One thing that might be confusing is if one is using a flue pipe thermometer on the stove top. The ranges (Cool, Safe, Overfire) are meant for readings off the surface of a single-wall flue pipe and do not apply to stove top temps.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42118/#458825

 

[lma58]

That all sounds good, but I know from seeing what I saw that 650 was not where it was stopping, it was on it's way up until I blocked almost 90% of the secondary air. And even then the fire was burning hard. I hope you're right.

 

[Todd]

When you turn down the air the secondary flames will kick in but your coals should darken or look like they are going out, If the coals still stay bright red then it could be a leak somewhere like the ash pan or excessive draft.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Hey I don't know if you've done so yet, but I'd be sure to check the ash drawer DOOR and make sure it is seating properly when closed....make sure the gasket is in there right, cuz if there's a little crack or leak under the fire there she'll really roar

 

[begreen]

Good point. If the rebuild missed sealing up a seam or if a gasket wasn't fitted well, then the stove will not respond well, no matter where the air control is set to. That would be a serious issue. Hard to tell without having an eyeball on the stove. Also, if there is ashbuild up behind the ashpan that can cause the pan to stop the door from closing tightly.

FWIW, our Castine and now the Alderlea, with a full load of wood on hot coals, almost always hits at least 650. One way to reduce this is to burn down the coal bed a bit more before adding more wood. Another is to use thicker splits.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hmmm . . . a mystery . . . and some possible culprits.

Random thoughts:

375 degrees is definitely not hot enough. I generally don't even start to think about closing off the air until my stove is 400-450 and I prefer running it up to 450-550 before starting to close off the air.

Taping the air control in the front would not do anything . . . the air (as mentioned by another poster) does not enter in the gap around the lever.

Three year old oak and cherry . . . should be producing plenty of BTUs that's for sure . . . the issue is getting that heat under control. I'm not surprised to see that much heat from this well seasoned wood . . . I'm wondering if you wouldn't try another experiment . . . but first find where the air enters the stove (should be in the back) so if need be you can block this off with some tin foil . . . now once the fire is established and you have a coal bed put on 2-3 pieces of this well seasoned wood but don't start closing off the air until you're at 450 degrees . . . and then start shutting down the air a quarter push at a time . . . I'm thinking a stove with no issues should raise the temp up 50-100 degrees and you will get some fantastic secondary action with no "flame out" or return of the flames once you're either completely shut down the air (which of course is a misnomer since you don't really completely shut off the air with these stoves) or at a quarter open . . . however, if the stove temps start to climb to 650+ and stay there for 10 minutes or more I would suspect there is some other issue going on.

Controling the fire with the size of the wood and amount of wood is important . . . but don't also forget the other controling aspect . . . the species of the wood or more to the point how dense and well seasoned the wood is . . . I would wager that a similarly sized piece of eastern white pine say in a stove would result in a faster, quicker to get hot fire than a similarly sized well seasoned piece of oak which I would guess would burn longer and hotter over a longer time period. Perhaps try another experiment and just burn some cherry and see what happens.

Finally, perhaps the best thing to do as a first experiment would be to recheck all seals and gaskets . . . maybe I've got ash pans on the mind from another thread, but make sure you check that . . . also, it may have already been asked, but you did put the washer on the front door's hinge, right?

 

[Highbeam]

Sounds totally normal. Shutting off the primary air to these stoves just makes more air come out of the secondary air system. The secondary air can certainly feed the fire and the secondary flame show above the fuel load will cook even more wood gas out of the fuel and feed the secondary fire faster.

Do not expect to have much control of the fire in a modern EPA non-cat.

I stuff mine full for the overnight, let it ignite, and shut off the primary air. Temps climb out of control to over 500 (soapstone so that's pretty high) and then once that burst of heat is over the fire settles down for a long burn at 450. I can't make it any colder if I wanted.

You can't run an EPA non-cat cool and long. that's for the cat stoves. Best you can hope for is hot and long.

Very clever of you to fit a large magnet over the secondary air feed. Great idea.

 

[lma58]

Thanks for the input.... maybe I just need to get used to it, after 2 years with a VC Difiant Encore CAT, and before that 26 years of a VC Vigilant, I am too used to the long lower temp. burns. I do love the look of the stove. Now I just need to wait for some winter temperatures I guess.

 

[tutu_sue]

If you remove the ashpan, you can check to make sure the bolts are all tight and that the gasket is seen between the metal. To check the ash pan housing for leaks - in a dark room have someone shine a bright light at each back corner of the ash pan housing while you look inside it from the front. If there is a leak in the ash pan housing, you may also see a streak of dark shiny creosote inside the box.