Still thinking about a system

[Adios Pantalones]

I know there are threads on any part of this, but I wanted some advice from folks that have put it all together.

I need to do my windows before anything, but may order (depending on funds) a gasifier. House is I think- 1600 sq ft log home, baseboard forced hot water, currently firing oil. I'd like to have storage and do DHW all year off this. There's only 2 of us in the house, so demand is not killah. I would likely supplement with the insert in the dead of winter, as we like the fire and it can give out good heat.

In my reading- it sounds like a slightly smaller system with good storage is a good option, as one could charge up the tank by the full load of wood efficiently.

With current options out there- what would you order?
Should I be looking for used LP tanks already?
How much do the COTS pressurized tanks go for, and are they a lot easier to deal with plumbing-wise?
Can I get a system and say 5-800 gal storage all told for $10K, or am I looking at like $15K?

I'm not afraid to do some install work myself.

thanks

 

[Adios Pantalones]

One more thing- I have an interior clay lined flue ready to use on this- probably do a stainless liner in that.

 

[Nofossil]

I'd start looking for propane tanks now - they can be tough to line up. I think that new propane tanks can be had for about $1500 if you can find a dealer willing to sell them. Used ones can be really cheap if you find any.

 

[stee6043]

I think you could do a "small" boiler system, with storage, for around $10k. I think I'll probably go over $15k with my EKO 40 and 1,000 gallons of storage by a small amount. Things not planned on included supporting the upper tank when stacked ($600 or so total), chase around chimney, cost to relocate some existing appliances in my utility room, etc.

Nofossil has a good point about the tanks. They can be hard to find (new). And buying used LP tanks opens up a pandora's box of cutting them up to clean them and then getting them rewelded by a certified pressure vessel welder. I paid $1300 each for mine...not cheap.

 

[Eric Johnson]

If you're trying to keep costs down (and who isn't?), I think you can get away with using the tile flue if it's in good condition. Tile is considered a Class A chimney, so if it's roughly the right dimensions (8'x8' or close to that), then I'd consider not lining it--at least not right away. You won't get any creosote from most gasifiers, so it should stay clean. On the total system cost, I'd estimate at closer to 10K if you do most or all of the work yourself. I haven't priced copper lately, but I expect that prices will come down as soon as we get this worldwide recession going, if they haven't already. Boiler prices have been going up, but there are more brands competing now, and who knows what the stronger dollar and cheaper freight costs will do to pricing in the coming year. Bottom line: your project might be cheaper a year from now, hard as that may be to believe.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Thanks guys. From my reading here, then, it looks like the EKO25 might be a good option. My dad is the kind of guy that might be able to hook me up with a used tank... he just knows the weirdest group of people.

Eric- thanks for the vote on not lining- that is a good chunk of chi-change. You're right- the dollar is pretty strong right now, so these imported boilers may actually still be reasonable (even with demand).

 

[muncybob]

....and it appears from reading a different post that if you buy after 12/31/08 but before 1/1/10 you may qualify for a $300 tax credit.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I already have a plumbing question- my oil fired boiler comes on periodically (too much if you ask me) to maintain temp for hot water- whether the water is in use or not.

If it goes cold it leaks. I'm told that's not abnormal. So with a wood fired boiler and storage for DHW in warm weather- I'd be charging up storage once every so many days- but the oil system will still be popping on. Is there any way to prevent that- to circulate the hot water into the oil backup to keep it hot and happy, without wasting a lot of heat and electricity in the process?

 

[deerefanatic]

I'd say one way to save a lot of change is to use Pex and black iron as much as possible and save the copper for only the things that need it, like heat exchangers. One good thing about pex is that it doesn't conduct heat as well, so it won't radiate as much heat as copper which leads to a more efficient operation. Sure, you can get that slip-on pipe insulation, but it's still pretty low r-value........

Not to mention that Pex is just sooooooo easy to work with.

 

[Nofossil]

I already have a plumbing question- my oil fired boiler comes on periodically (too much if you ask me) to maintain temp for hot water- whether the water is in use or not.

If it goes cold it leaks. I'm told that's not abnormal. So with a wood fired boiler and storage for DHW in warm weather- I'd be charging up storage once every so many days- but the oil system will still be popping on. Is there any way to prevent that- to circulate the hot water into the oil backup to keep it hot and happy, without wasting a lot of heat and electricity in the process?

If you do a parallel setup (along the lines of the 'simplest pressurized storage' sticky) you could put a second aquastat on the oil boiler set for the lowest possible safe temperature - 120 degrees, maybe, and use it to run the oil circ as needed when the wood or storage is active.

Longer term good solution - get an indirect hot water heater, or an electric with a sidearm, and a tankless propane hot water heater as your backup heat source. I got one for under $500 that will heat the house. Propane has a near-infinite shelf life, unlike fuel oil.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Gotcha- thanks. I guess that the trick would be that I'd have to manually turn up the oil temp when I am going to be away from the house in cold weather. That would still provide reasonable DHW temps if I plumbed the DHW coil from the storage as a sort of preheater in series before the oil tank. In that way I'd get some heat charging of the oil system whenever the DHW was used.

It's actually pretty simple stuff. Your website is a goldmine of info- thanks!