Stove break in

[whiskeyrichard]

I am breaking in a new stove. Some of you haev read my previous posts, it is a Harman Oakwood.

When I was breaking in my country stove earlier this year, it seemed like it took a while to be able to get the stove real hot. Now it burns just as hot as I would like and more if I don't watch out.

Is there something that happens with a stove in the first couple weeks that makes it easier to get a nice hot fire, or is it just getting more aqcuainted with the stove and knowing how to use it that makes it easier to get a nice hot fire?

I was wondering because I am having a hard time getting the ole' Oakwood to get very hot. I can get it 450 or so, by using pretty small pieces, but other than that, it wants to cool down some.


I have a 19 foot high chimney that is 8x12 masonry so it doesn;t seem like draft should be an issue.

WR

 

[Shane]

All your doing by breaking in the new stove is curing the paint and if applicable to your stove curing the gasket cement. I have noticed that once I get a good bed of ashes in the showroom wood stoves that I can get the stove up to temp faster.

 

[whiskeyrichard]

When I was first burning my country stove, I would get droplets of water on the inside of the stove, mainly towards the front. In the manual it stated that there was moisture in the steel and bricks?!? Huh?

I was really supprised how much water would roll down the inside front of the stove in the early days of it's life.

Would I expect that same thing to happen with a cast iron stove?

By the way, I think I am really going to like this Harman Oakwood once I get used to it. I have found myself going downstairs just to look at it.....even when it's not burning. Previously, this sort of childish behavior was reserved for new trucks or dirt bikes.


WR

 

[elkimmeg]

I have a 19 foot high chimney that is 8x12 masonry so it doesn;t seem like draft should be an issue.

Is this an exterior chimney location any walls exposed to the outside?

NFPA 211 this is code states Cross-sectional code states you may draft into a flue up to 2x the cross-sectional area of the flue collar of the appliance

A 6" flue collar has an area about 26" times 2 = 56" your 8/12 clay flue interior cross sectional area is about 80"

You are trying to vent into an area about 3 times larger than the appliance was desidned to support. Being outside exposed compounds the situation.

The stove is not generating enough heat to warm the clay flues enough, to promote the draft required ,to get that stove operating in the 600 degree range.

Too much energy is wasted just trying to heat that flue. The difference between 450 to 600,is twice the heat volume emitted into the living space.

You need a liner for that stove to operate and draft correctly. Or suffer, never getting less than desirable performance and posting here wondering why.

Who installed that stove? If you paid to have it installed then the seller and installers need a review course in the code book. This is not a new code, it is going on 4 years since the

cross-sectional code was revised. It was revised to reflect modern stove draft requirements, to avoid exactly the situation you are describing.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

you have a 96 square inch chimney, and a stove that is designed to run on a 28.26 square inch chimney? I think thats your problem. Line it to the proper size.

 

[whiskeyrichard]

Here is an excerpt taken from the manual for this stove:

The minimum recommended height for any chimney
is 16 ft (4.8 m) above flue collar height. For nonmobile
home installations, a round flue (either masonry or
approved prefabricated), of either 6" (150 mm), 7" (180
mm) or 8" (200 mm) may be used. For square or rectangular
masonry chimneys, nominal sizes of 8" x 8" or 8"x
12" (200 mm x 200 mm, 200 mm x 300 mm) may be used.

I have a 19ft chimney that is not exposed to the outdoors excpet where it goes through the roof. If I read this correctly, it sounds to me like I have this thing setup just right.

WR

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

yes it will work, but not work well, as your experencing.

 

[elkimmeg]

the other part of the code is 3x the cross-sectional are for interior located chimney / locations

I take back the statements that apply to exterior qualifications but the symptons are still pointing to trying to over come an are close tto3X
that of appliance flue collar.. You asked for suggestions or solutions We are telling you one to line that chimney to reduce the cross-section area of the existing setup


Evidently you dissagree with the suggestion, that's your right to. What else do you want us to tell you yes it is code compliant. Is there a block off plate? could intrusion
of room air be effecting the draft very valid point? does the chimney have more than one flue in that chase?. It also could be a very leaky ash cleanout door
Where is it located in the home the basement? have you analized the effect of negative pressures concerning your draft?

Did you know an attic hatch or pull downstairs opening could be the cause due to pressure differencials?,, Are there other appliances dwawing air competing and reducing draft.

Is you chimney tall enough 3 " above the roof and 2" higher than any part of the structure within 10' Are tall trees near your home or a hill taller than your roof?
All these can factor in causing less than good draft If you eliminae all the other possibilities then there is only the cross-sectional issue

I hope you can eliminate some of the known causes ash clean out door ect pressurization

 

[whiskeyrichard]

Wow man, I am not disagreeing with your suggestions.....it's Friday, take it easy.

I am just pointing out that the manual says that my setup would work with this stove. I did look into it before hand.

I appreciate all the other suggestions. I'll go through them 1 at a time this weekend and see how far I get. the chim,ney does have another flu in teh same chase. What are the effects of that (I'm interested)?

One thing I noticed is that when I open the bypass damper, the stove will draft so hard it sucks flames quite a ways up into the flu.

 

[elkimmeg]

I started out a bit well but by the time I finished the post my mind thought of most of the common causes that effect draft.

Ash cleanout doors since the chase is shared, more than one door may be servicing the two flues and can be leaking
with the stove running place a match around the doors note if the flame detects air movement. a simple fix would to duct tape the doors if in the basement and not near any heat

the two flues in one chase if the motar joints are not good chacked of missing cement then one the stove flue can drawin air from the chase or air from the adjacent flue.
any air leak into the stove flue will reduce draft.

Damper block off plate prevents room air from entering clay flue plus prevent back drafting of smoke exhaust into the living space. If room air is being allowed to enter it takes room heat with it. Room air is cooler that stove draft and cools the flues cooler flues do not draft as well and also are condusive to cersote build up

Presurization at some point in all homes there is a neutral pressure plane all areas above it are possitive bellow negative If a two story home the pressure plane is found near the first floor ceiling All envelope leakes above the neutral plain adds to positive pressure and creates more negative pressure below. Common leak areas are attic accesses recessed lights bath fans.
simple foam self stick tape can make a difference sealing attic access drafts Leaky windows should be looked at on the second floor. IS the stove in the basement?

that same foam can be applied to window sills to reduce draft leaks

Again with the damper open your draft seems ok but closed requires good draft conditions to function every symptom points to a draft issue be it cross-sectional or a combination of other problems.

BTW I wish I had your stove, I really like the look and quality it is.. Just trying to help nothing more nothing less no oppinions other than I like that stove

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

considering all the above, even in a perfect install in a positive pressure area of the home, the stove will not run at its full potential on a 8x12 flue. In other words, if every thing checks out from the list above, you still need a liner.

 

[BrotherBart]

I agree with Elk and MSG whiskey and here is why. For twenty years I burned a pre-EPA free breathing stove into a 21 foot 8 X 12 clay tiled flue. I thought I had great draft. I lined that thing and it was like daylight and dark the difference in draft. When you first posted I went and looked at the Oakwood manual and was shocked that it said you could go up to 8 X 12. I cannot imagine any six inch flue collar EPA stove burning worth a damn into an 8 X 12 given my experiences. Those things need a ton of draft to pull combustion and secondary air through them.

I know, I just replaced the above mentioned stove with with a large EPA stove. I don't think I could have gotten a fire started in the new one without the liner. Also I tried the Jotul in my office into a 30 foot 8 X 12 last year and it burned like crap. I lined that flue also this year and the Jotul burns great.

 

[whiskeyrichard]

cool, tons of information. I really appreciate it. This is the place I rely on for, among other things, help when I need with all things wood burning. I don't even bother with my local hearth store. They are not nearly as knowledgable.

I think I'll suffer through this winter with poor draft and use the upstairs stove more than this stove which is downstairs.

The reason is this. This new stove is too big for the hearth it sits on. That is OK with us, because we plan on building a house next year and are going to take this stove with us because we like it so much. I'll probably just take it out and replace it with a pellet stove when I go to sell the house.

Now in my new house, I am planning on getting this thing setup soooooo nice. It's is going to be our only source of heart. We are going to build a gambrel roof house...barn shaped... The main floor is going to be about 1000 sq feet and there will be a loft upstairs that will have the master bedroom and bathroom. I am planning on putting the stove on the main floor just underneath the edge of the loft area.

You all have a good weekend. I am going dirt bike riding tomorrow AM, and plan on going wood scavaging in the afternoon along the RR tracks. There are trails wide enough along the tracks to get a truck back there.......fun!

WR

 

[Gooserider]

Now in my new house, I am planning on getting this thing setup soooooo nice. It's is going to be our only source of heart. We are going to build a gambrel roof house...barn shaped... The main floor is going to be about 1000 sq feet and there will be a loft upstairs that will have the master bedroom and bathroom. I am planning on putting the stove on the main floor just underneath the edge of the loft area.

You all have a good weekend. I am going dirt bike riding tomorrow AM, and plan on going wood scavaging in the afternoon along the RR tracks. There are trails wide enough along the tracks to get a truck back there.......fun!

WR

Good luck on the new house, but I would STRONGLY reccomend against having the wood stove be the only source of heat. Heating with wood is wonderful, and certainly makes sense to use it for the primary heating system, but I find there is one BIG problem with a wood stove, (or pellet stoves for that matter), namely that someone MUST be around to shove fuel in them on a regular basis or things can freeze... Therefore if you have indoor plumbing :cheese: I think it is VITAL to have some sort of backup heat that can come on just to keep stuff from freezing if you have to be away for any length of time.... For instance, we keep our gas HVAC system set at 55*F - ideally it never comes on, but if we need it it is there... If it's a backup I don't see cost as a big issue, but that's a seperate matter.

Gooserider

 

[whiskeyrichard]

Currently the only source of heat we have is wood. No fire, no heat, no heat, no nookey!

Yah, I know what you mean. We currently have no plans to have any other sort of heat, but maybe I should think about at least a gas wall furnace. We do plan to have gas for cooking, hot water and the dryer so I wouldn't be to big of a deal.

Thanks for the advice.

Which goose do you ride? I was very close to getting a lemans, but got a BMW GS instead. I have since sold all street bikes and ride strictly dirt. You can be more of a derelict in the dirt


WR

 

[whiskeyrichard]

I just went up and measured the flu where it comes out the chimney up on the roof. I was wrong, it is 8x8, and the inner diameter is about 7x7 (a little bit bigger than that).

So I am a little bit over on the size of the flu (but not according to the manual), and a little bit over on the length (this should work to my benefit), but she just will not get that hot.

Do you guys still think that the 8x8 flu will cause this issue?

WR

 

[elkimmeg]

the 8/8 interior clay flue is about as good as it gets when connecting to a masonry chimney.
when you looked down any missing mortar? in good condition?
block off plate and sealing the ash dump
can provide digital photo of your setup and connector piping?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

yes, in most instances. Your still talking more the twice the volume then the stove is designed for. These stoves work best on ~28 square inches of chimney.

 

[TexasAgs]

Let ms ask the dumb question... How do you measure the Sq inches of a chimney?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

A=pie x radius squared
A=length x width

 

[BrotherBart]

Let ms ask the dumb question... How do you measure the Sq inches of a chimney?

When I was at UT it was the area of a rectangle, length times width for square and rectangular and (3.14 times X radius X radius) for a circle.

Don't know how they did it at A&M.

BB (Tea Sipper and proud of it.) :cheese:

PS: On square and rectangular tile chimneys measure inside not outside the tile.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

BB your evil LMAO.
TexasAgs, BB has a strange sense of humor.

 

[BrotherBart]

BB your evil LMAO.
TexasAgs, BB has a strange sense of humor.

UT grad can never pass up an opportunity to poke fun at an Aggie, and visa versa.

 

[Gooserider]

Currently the only source of heat we have is wood. No fire, no heat, no heat, no nookey!

Yah, I know what you mean. We currently have no plans to have any other sort of heat, but maybe I should think about at least a gas wall furnace. We do plan to have gas for cooking, hot water and the dryer so I wouldn't be to big of a deal.

Thanks for the advice.

Which goose do you ride? I was very close to getting a lemans, but got a BMW GS instead. I have since sold all street bikes and ride strictly dirt. You can be more of a derelict in the dirt


WR

I have a couple of California II's, both set up with sidecars. My daily runner I have over 120K on, it has an Earles front end, and custom wheels that let me run car tires. The side car I built from scratch and it still isn't really finished, but does have a few neat things like electric lean angle adjustment. It isn't pretty though, as I'm of the "soap and chrome won't get you home" school... I point out though that my bikes are multi time award winning show bikes - rat class! :cheese: