Stove/Insert Newbie. Have questions.. answers Greatly appreciated!

[therookie1403]

Hello All,

First time posting so hopefully I am in the right discussion board. I was going to post in questions, but since I am looking at pellet stoves, I figured this is the right place.

A little background.. Im a city boy and have never dealt with anything like this before, but am always up for learning new things and a challenge. So.. Live in my fiance's (our) house. She has had it for 7 years. It is a 1920's 1 and a half story about 1500 sq ft. Unfinished basement. Not insulated well at all. Old windows ect.. Only plan on being in the house for another 5 years max. Insulated the attic last winter (had no insulation in it) Blew about 2 foot of cellulose up there. New roof this year. Heating bills (natural gas in the city) are running 250-300 a month with the setting on 62 (yes, 62) Which is unacceptable in my eyes. Pay a lot to be cold, not cool. So started researching stoves/inserts recently and it brought me here. I am a research-aholic about everything. Looked at wood first.. but live in the city, already winter, didnt want to look for wood ect. Pellet stove looks to fit the bill. I wanted a self standing unit in the living room, but fiance put the kybosh on that. So, on to a insert. There is a fireplace basically directly in the middle of the house, in the living room were we spend most of our time. Dinning room and kitchen are behind the fireplace. A staircase leading up to the upstairs and the 3 bedrooms is also in the living room with the fireplace. Thats the basic layout, if that makes sense.

Have done a lot of research and see that harman are nice. I am looking at the Harman p35i. Looks nice, looks easy enough to use with a little research. Its expensive, but personally if Im making the investment id rather spend a little more for a better product. Not looking for my house to be a sauna, but something to supplement the heat and slash the heating bill would be nice. Its rated at about 35000 BTU, will that do what I am looking for? Will the heat get upstairs? Venting.. vent all the way up the flue (prolly 25 ft chimney) or stub it off and put a plate in? Price is 2995 for the unit. Said 350 to install everything and he would throw the venting in for that price. (Local dealer) Good price? Also, they have a free ton of pellets in with purchase in november and harman has a $100 gift card right now. I want to do it as quick as possible as to get the most use out of it this winter. Just would appreciate some feedback from people who know what there taking about before I throw down 3500 for a unit.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mralias]

It is a 1920's 1 and a half story about 1500 sq ft. Unfinished basement. Not insulated well at all. Old windows ect..

Pellet stoves are wonderful except when you are pumping that warm air out the old windows and walls. I know this is not the answer you are looking for but IMO the windows replaced and walls insulated would be first before any pellet stove. I think you will be disappointed by just getting the pellet stove. They are space heaters at best.

 

[mikkeeh]

The Harman is a nice unit. Id discuss the install with the dealer though. Not sure on this, but I think the best route is pellet vent all the way to the top. If its over 15', you need to step up to 4". I don't think you could buy the parts to do the vent for $350......not including labor. Seems like lotsa guys selling and installing pellet stoves, that don't have a clue. Talk to some of their install customers and see if they're happy. I did my own install. Dealer I dealt with was ok for sales...but I had seen some of his installs and wasn't impressed. Don't forget about an OAK. I know your home has many air leaks now...but without an OAK, the stove will remove air from the house for combustion...creating low pressure in the house and drawing cold outside air through all the cracks to replenish it.
Will the heat get upstairs???? Some will, will probably do ok.
I heat my 1400 sqft ranch with a P43.....however...its only 10 yrs old and well insulated. Used about 3.5 tons last season......zero propane.
Hope this helps.

 

[iceguy4]

Hello All,

First time posting so hopefully I am in the right discussion board. I was going to post in questions, but since I am looking at pellet stoves, I figured this is the right place.

A little background.. Im a city boy and have never dealt with anything like this before, but am always up for learning new things and a challenge. So.. Live in my fiance's (our) house. She has had it for 7 years. It is a 1920's 1 and a half story about 1500 sq ft. Unfinished basement. Not insulated well at all. Old windows ect.. Only plan on being in the house for another 5 years max. Insulated the attic last winter (had no insulation in it) Blew about 2 foot of cellulose up there. New roof this year. Heating bills (natural gas in the city) are running 250-300 a month with the setting on 62 (yes, 62) Which is unacceptable in my eyes. Pay a lot to be cold, not cool. So started researching stoves/inserts recently and it brought me here. I am a research-aholic about everything. Looked at wood first.. but live in the city, already winter, didnt want to look for wood ect. Pellet stove looks to fit the bill. I wanted a self standing unit in the living room, but fiance put the kybosh on that. So, on to a insert. There is a fireplace basically directly in the middle of the house, in the living room were we spend most of our time. Dinning room and kitchen are behind the fireplace. A staircase leading up to the upstairs and the 3 bedrooms is also in the living room with the fireplace. Thats the basic layout, if that makes sense.

Have done a lot of research and see that harman are nice. I am looking at the Harman p35i. Looks nice, looks easy enough to use with a little research. Its expensive, but personally if Im making the investment id rather spend a little more for a better product. Not looking for my house to be a sauna, but something to supplement the heat and slash the heating bill would be nice. Its rated at about 35000 BTU, will that do what I am looking for? Will the heat get upstairs? Venting.. vent all the way up the flue (prolly 25 ft chimney) or stub it off and put a plate in? Price is 2995 for the unit. Said 350 to install everything and he would throw the venting in for that price. (Local dealer) Good price? Also, they have a free ton of pellets in with purchase in november and harman has a $100 gift card right now. I want to do it as quick as possible as to get the most use out of it this winter. Just would appreciate some feedback from people who know what there taking about before I throw down 3500 for a unit.

Thanks in advance.

So your going to try to heat with pellets and save money over nat gas? good luck with that Read this thread..https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wood-pellets-vs-natural-gas-furance.62193/..then insulate and fill holes...

 

[Madcodger]

Iceguy4 makes a good point. I'm a great fan of pellet stoves (have 2) but there is some basic insulation work to be done as the first step in almost any home. I am a big fan of paid energy audits as a first step. Pay to have a BPI or RESnet certified expert do a blower door test and full audit on your home (likely $500 - $700). You should recapture that in the time you will stay in the home by focusing your efforts on the actions that will give you your biggest return. Armed with that information you can make the energy SAVING investments that make sense first, and then move on to alternative ways to PRODUCE heat (i.e., a pellet stove) after the worst of those are resolved. For example, all that extra insulation you blew into the attic is helping with your conductive heat loss (heat that transfers directly through the ceiling) but is doing almost nothing to stop convective heat loss (the air currents going from all your little wall openings such as light sockets, receptacles, wiring and piping holes, etc., that run up to your attic). Only sealing those holes will stop that, which generally means someone spending time in the attic with foam and/or a caulk gun.

You will spend money for those pellets. You will spend much less of it if you stop the worst losses first. And the best way to figure out where to focus is with an energy audit.

 

[mralias]

So your going to try to heat with pellets and save money over nat gas? good luck with that Read this thread..https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wood-pellets-vs-natural-gas-furance.62193/..then insulate and fill holes...

Link is dead. Hyper link needs an edit.

 

[railfanron]

I agree with Madcodger. Windows and insulation will do more to lessen your heating bills than a transfer to a pellet stove. Also when you and your partner decide to sell you'll get more return on your investment as well. I have a P43 and like it a lot but my house is extremely well insulated and it has very good windows. Every nickel in insulation upgrades pays back the first year if you do the work yourself.
Ron

 

[iceguy4]

....google Wood Pellets vs. natural gas furnace
Its like the 3rd choice...good read

 

[krooser]

I believe the OP will be better off heating with a pellet stove. After all he is now suffering in a 62 degree home with no relief in sight. I installed my stove seven years ago in my drafty 100+ year old house and went from a 65F home to one that was now 75F and still saved $100.00 to 150.00 per month over my NG bill.

I would, however, look at a freestanding stove rather than an insert. Easier to clean and repair, often less $$$, and you are one 4" hole and one 2" (oak) hole away from comfort. Plus you will save money on installation costs and you can place it where it works the best not where the fireplace is located.

 

[therookie1403]

Thanks for all the replies. I did some basic insulation techniques. Re-caulked storm windows, put draft stops in and then put plastic up. Have thermal curtains on most of the windows. Again, since only going to be in the house for 5 years max, I'm not putting new windows in. 20 windows, all custom sizes.. 20,000. Won't get that return, would rather freeze. I may throw some new, e glass storms on in the summer. Or check insulation in the walls, whatever the better bang for the buck is. I did however take a leap of faith, and bought a harman p35i insert. (I wanted a free standing stove for a multitude of reasons, but my better half put a stop to that) the harman, really was one if the only that would fit in our small fireplace. Had it installed 2 days ago. So far, I am happy with the purchase. I leave the thermostat at 62. Put a bag of pellets in, room temp mode at 70, feed 3.5 and it heats the house to roughly 66 through-out. 28 deg in michigan today. Living room (most time spent)and upstairs are warmer. Dining room and kitchen, which are behind the fireplace are cooler. May not seem like a lot but coming from 62, it feels like Florida. I'm letting the pellets run out during the night, thermostat kicks in, and it's still 62 when the fiancé gets up for work at 530. (Which she wants the furnace on because it is a more even temp upstairs, where the shower is) the way I figured it for now, if I only use approx 1.5 bag a day, let the furnace take over in the middle of the night, I should be paying roughly the same between ng and pellets. BUT, I am saving money when it comes to keeping it warmer. 66-67 with natural gas would be well over 300, and I can achieve that with 1.5 bag of pellets throughout the day, and furnace at night. Like 2 am it turns on. Plus, I like it cooler when sleeping. Paying roughly the same to be warmer is worth it for me. Like the stove, love the fire, don't mind the fan. It's calming if you ask me. I'll have to wait to get utility bills to see what my gas drops down. But, like I said w the insert running, the furnace does not kick on. Today filled the hopper, 62 lbs capacity at 10am, have I'm guessing an hour left. So the way I figure roughly 3.7 ish lbs per hour. Is that good/bad/average? I'm assuming that's alright considering the insulation of the house. Again thanks for the advice. Just wanted to give an Update.

 

[Madcodger]

Well, it sounds like you have a very workable solution. Happy to hear. Pellet use sounds a tad high to me, but you're asking that insert to do a fair amount of work. I would start trying various setting combinations between air and feed rate, and perhaps various pellet brands. Good luck, and enjoy. And remember, clean stove = happy stove.